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Excel Court Date Set - Defence Statement Help

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  • Sorry, I've got a bit confused here. The skeleton argument was what I though I had already submitted back when the CCJ came in, but that appears to be similar to my WS. I want to get this right - the main points I'll be arguing are about POFA & no proof of driver. I've got all the evidence lined up - is the skeleton more just referring to specific bits of law e.g POFA para 9.
  • Xanthanan
    Xanthanan Posts: 67 Forumite
    Im at roughly the same stage (maybe a few days behind you) and originally had a longhand version of war and peace in both the Witness Statement (WS) and Skeleton Argument (SA).. I've thinned them out considerably (Honest!) but there still seems to be quite a lot of repetition and cross pollination between the two documents... Getting there slowly I guess.

    This is how I see it (and our trusty forum vets will soon correct me if my understanding is misplaced):

    The original 'defence' you submitted on MCOL not long after the claim landed now forms the basis for your case in court. It should feed elements of that initial 'defence' into your WS - being 'the facts you want to present', and also into your SA - being 'the words you will say in court to make your case' and in that you will be referring when necessary to your evidence exhibits and / or your Witness Statement where needed to make a particular defence point.

    Did I get that right? Happy to edit if its wrong!
  • henrik777
    henrik777 Posts: 3,052
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    That was the defence.

    Then you have a witness statement from yourself (and any other witness such as a passenger or the driver) stating there were no signs, i paid, i entered the reg number, i have a lease, whatever and any evidence (photos, lease, land registry search etc)


    Then you piece it all together. (skeleton/oral argument) For example, I have a lease (doc a) the lease means they are bandits as you can see from Punch v Judy in the court outside the pub where judge plod said "the lease is king, anyone else is just a chancer" and for that reason you should tell the claimant to !!!! off and pay me my costs.


    PS i did not base this on your case which may or may not be a lease scenario but i haven't read all the thread.
  • Xanthanan
    Xanthanan Posts: 67 Forumite
    Lol I prefer Henrik's version ;)
  • I've received the witness statement and evidence from BWL, they've stated Excel will be represented by an advocate.

    Do I need to rebut now (sending something to the court and them) or do I rebut their arguments on the day?

    Lamilad - if you see this, I'd be interested to see if they raised the same arguments with you when you won and how you addressed them.

    As always, thanks in advance for any assistance on this.
  • Lamilad
    Lamilad Posts: 1,412
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    You challenge the advocate's RoA on the day.

    Can you upload their WS/ evidence to Dropbox/ one drive and post the links?
  • Lamilad - I've sent you a PM with the dropbox link
  • ElParque
    ElParque Posts: 74
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    I'm at a similar stage in my case, (posted today). Re the Skeleton, are you saying that the choices are;

    1. Send it to court/the claimant either with the WS or at some point between sending in the WS and the date of the hearing

    2. Save it for court and at that point present it to the judge for him/her to read.

    3. Save it for court and use it as the basis for what you say in court or just read it out in court?
  • Yeah just whether it's better to address points between now and the hearing, so the judge has time to see the arguments and doesn't have to go through them all on the day.
  • Lamilad
    Lamilad Posts: 1,412
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    ElParque wrote: »
    I'm at a similar stage in my case, (posted today). Re the Skeleton, are you saying that the choices are;

    1. Send it to court/the claimant either with the WS or at some point between sending in the WS and the date of the hearing

    2. Save it for court and at that point present it to the judge for him/her to read.

    3. Save it for court and use it as the basis for what you say in court or just read it out in court?

    If you are writing a skeleton and wish to use this to make your arguments in court (rather than making them orally) then you should file it with the court 3-4 days before the hearing.

    Alternatively you can take your skeleton with you on the day and use it as notes to make your arguments orally.

    Don't do as some have and try to adduce your skeleton on the day, as this will likely annoy the judge and may lead to an adjournment with you liable for the claimants wasted costs.
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