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UKPC - County Court Claim Defence and Process

15791011

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  • Coupon-mad
    Coupon-mad Posts: 131,284 Forumite
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    Your form on 'witnesses' should match theirs - it is one (you) versus one (them).

    The rest is fine. The only thing to be wary of, is if the Court suggests Mediation is suitable even though you ticked no (and we agree, tick no!). Seach rthe forum for 'Mary' to read about a Mediator who tried to influence a defendant to settle which is all too common a report. Mediation has no real point in PPC cases for a consumer because you are hardly going to suddenly agree to pay even a % of the unfair charge unless a Judge tells you to!
    PRIVATE 'PCN'? DON'T PAY BUT DON'T IGNORE IT (except N.Ireland).
    CLICK at the top of this/any page where it says:
    Forum Home»Motoring»Parking Tickets Fines & Parking - read the NEWBIES THREAD
  • Good afternoon - hoping all is well with everyone in this board and enjoying the summer break with their families?

    I wanted to update everyone to say - I finally have a court date!!!

    It's towards the latter stage of October 2016.

    As per Bargepole's digestible summary of the CCC process:
    6) Once you have a court date, get back in contact with the member who prepared the initial defence for you, and they will then supply the full witness statement, skeleton argument and court bundle. We have a number of “standard” paragraphs which apply to almost all PPC defences, but we also need to personalise the statement with particulars about how the ticket was issued, what the PPC is claiming in their POC, whether the ticket was pre or post 1st October 2012, what was on the signage, etc.

    Seeing as we have about 2 months before the hearing, would someone who's helped me throughout this ordeal care to give me a hand with the Full Witness Statement, Skeleton Argument and Court Bundle and get it all perfected down to a tee?

    Also, just a quickie (I have a feeling I know the answer already but it still begs the question...) - in the letter, it states that a hearing fee of under £200 is payable by XXXX date by the Claimant unless I make an application for a fee concession - should I go ahead with the application or let the muppets at UKPC / SCS Law take care of that?

    Reason I ask is because the court may look more towards the "good-will gesture" (for lack of a better word) of the Defendant if I paid for it first... I have a feeling you'll say to let them take care of it as they may not even pay it and the claim is struck out - meaning I win, right?!?

    Thanks once again, and have a merry good summer (or what's left of it)
    :beer:
  • DoaM
    DoaM Posts: 11,863 Forumite
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    The defendant doesn't pay ANY court fees, do they?
  • Hey DoaM, I presume not, but I wasn't sure if I would look "better" in front of the judge if i shouldered the court fees...

    Forget I asked - it was a stupid question anyway!
  • The_Deep
    The_Deep Posts: 16,830 Forumite
    It was a stupid question. You need to get a handle on this or you will end up with a CCJ.
    You never know how far you can go until you go too far.
  • Coupon-mad
    Coupon-mad Posts: 131,284 Forumite
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    Hey DoaM, I presume not, but I wasn't sure if I would look "better" in front of the judge if i shouldered the court fees...

    Absolutely and categorically not. We will try to forget you asked! The hearing fee is for the Claimant to pay of course, at this stage. If you lose at a hearing, you will be told to pay the court fees and the PCN(s).

    Have a look at Anthony94's outcome (he won) and compare it to Joe_R (on pepipoo) and Garsantinos (on here) outcomes from this week. Both lost and came up against a very narky and unhelpful Judge from the outset. They were probably doomed but let's hope you get a decent Judge.

    No-one will write your full defence for you (it can't have extra new points added, so it does not need much of a change except for the padding of the evidence) but we will comment & help, if you ask us anything.

    Basically your 'witness statement' is a statement of facts 'I am the registered keeper' blah blah, like the BMPA set out here:

    http://www.bmpa.eu/static_witness_statement.php

    Your full defence is your previous 'shorter version' one, with evidence added (e.g. case law, photos etc.). The defence bundle you bring with you on the day, has everything printed out in triplicate, and the defence refers to the evidence ('exhibits') like you see here in this really detailed defence shown by the Parking Prankster:

    http://parking-prankster.blogspot.co.uk/2016/08/parkingeye-discontinue-two-cases.html

    Don't be fazed by that defence, clearly written by a legally-qualified person (can tell by the way it is worded, it is not a forum defence). I am merely showing you that one so you can see how the defence refers the Judge at each point, to the full evidence Bundle with short numbering: 'B1' etc.

    DO NOT reply if any poster here or on pepipoo sends you a private message offering to 'help'. The regulars will not contact you by pm and anyone else could be...anyone! We will help here on the forum and you may wish to register and post on pepipoo as well if you have not already:

    http://forums.pepipoo.com/index.php?showforum=60

    Plenty of help on there too if you register and start a thread.
    PRIVATE 'PCN'? DON'T PAY BUT DON'T IGNORE IT (except N.Ireland).
    CLICK at the top of this/any page where it says:
    Forum Home»Motoring»Parking Tickets Fines & Parking - read the NEWBIES THREAD
  • Coupon-mad
    Coupon-mad Posts: 131,284 Forumite
    Name Dropper First Post Photogenic First Anniversary
    I wanted to update everyone to say - I finally have a court date!!!

    It's towards the latter stage of October 2016.

    Just to suggest you might want to compare notes with Bobby2k2:

    http://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/showthread.php?t=5373288&page=4

    Did you see that (as I mentioned above re some of these posters) Joe_R on pepipoo forum and more recently, Sam84 on here, lost their cases v UKPC but Anthony94 and two more posters this week, won, re 'unclear photo evidence of signage near the car/or where the car was even parked'. TommyG5 and badbrains89.

    Have you submitted your witness statement and full defence already and is your court bundle in the process of being prepared? Any questions?

    I would read the threads where people have won and lost recently and try to learn from them.
    PRIVATE 'PCN'? DON'T PAY BUT DON'T IGNORE IT (except N.Ireland).
    CLICK at the top of this/any page where it says:
    Forum Home»Motoring»Parking Tickets Fines & Parking - read the NEWBIES THREAD
  • Hi CM, apologies for the delay in my response to your two messages - work and personal life have been chaotic and finding time to focus on this case has been very difficult.

    I'll be dedicating tomorrow to having a draft of my Full Defence and Defence Bundle. At the same time, I'll get the Witness Statement drafted.

    Can you elaborate on why the Defence Bundle has to be printed out in triplicate for the court day? I would guess one for me, one for UKPC/SCS Law, and one for the Judge...

    Thanks for linking Bobby2k2's thread, that was a very interesting read. And yes, I did see TommyG5, badbrains89 and Anthony94's win - fantastic victories!!

    Thanks again.
  • IndigoMondayToyota
    IndigoMondayToyota Posts: 120 Forumite
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    edited 18 September 2016 at 9:38PM
    Hi,

    I have the drafts for my Full Defense and Witness Statement (which I'll be posting separately).

    I would gratefully appreciate your time and consideration in reviewing the two posts and letting me know what to add/omit.

    I've set it out in the following format:
    Defence - From my Skeleton Defence in post #35
    Evidence/Exhibit
    Comment / Query

    Full Defense:
    1. It is admitted that Defendant was the registered keeper of the vehicle in question.

    2. The Defendant has no liability as they are the Keeper of the vehicle, and the Private Parking Company has failed to comply with the strict provisions of The Protection of Freedoms Act 2012 to hold anyone other than the driver liable for the charge. (what can i use as evidence?)

    3. The signage displayed clearly only makes an offer of parking to permit holders, and therefore only permit holders can be bound by the contractual terms conveyed. Please refer to exhibit BX (image from post #13)

    4. It is denied that the Claimant has authority to bring this claim. The proper Claimant is the landowner. UK Parking Control cannot overrule the elements of the lease or introduce them subsequently. Strict proof is required that there is a chain of contracts leading from the landowner to UKPC. Please refer to the highlighted part, page X, in exhibit BX (This is to show the highlighted section under ‘Property Register’ from the Title Register, showing the land is between Housing Association and my Parents. Should I also include the Title Plan? (both obtained from Land Registry in June))

    5. The Claimant rejects any 'legal fee' per PCN which UKPC have randomly added, which is a penalty in itself.

    6. Accordingly, the Claimant is put to strict proof the additional fees and costs added to the value shown on signages for the £90/£100 charges was ever in fact incurred per PCN, at all.

    7. UK Parking Control are not the lawful occupier of the land.
    (i) UKPC is not the lawful occupier of the land. Can I reuse the same exhibits from point 4?
    (ii) absent contract with the lawful occupier of the land being produced by the claimant, or a chain of contracts showing authorisation stemming from the lawful occupier of the land, I have the reasonable belief that they do not have the authority to issue charges on this land in their own name and that they have no locus standi to bring this case.

    8. The signage on the site shows two different sums - £90 in one place, £100 in another - so it would be impossible to assume which sign (if any) the driver(s) of the vehicle on each occasion saw, or did not see. Each sign is pale, unlit, unremarkable and placed so high that the £90/£100 charge among the wordy small print is incapable of being read, cannot form a contract and is ambiguous due to the sum differing. The doctrine of contra proferentem applies and the interpretation that most favours a consumer must prevail; that being that the driver(s) did not see or accept the sum the claimant says they did. Please refer to exhibit BX (images from my posts on #13 and #20)

    9. - The signage on the site in question is unclear and was not prominent on site/around those bays at the time the PCN's were issued so no contract has been formed with driver(s) to pay £90/£100, or any additional fee charged if unpaid in 14 days. (Can I reuse the same images from point 8?)

    10. This case can be distinguished from ParkingEye v Beavis [2015] UKSC 67 (the Beavis case) which was dependent upon an undenied contract, formed by unusually prominent signage forming a clear offer and which turned on unique facts regarding the location and the interests of the landowner. Strict compliance with the BPA Code of Practice (CoP) was paramount and Mr Beavis was the driver who saw the signs and entered into a contract to pay £85 after exceeding a licence to park free. None of this applies in this material case. Please refer to exhibit BX (this will be a large printout of ParkingEye’s signage), and exhibit BX for comparison (which shows the images from my posts #13 & #20)

    11. The Protection of Freedom Act 2012 Schedule 4 has not been complied with. The registered keeper is unaware of 11 PCN's and was not the driver, as such the keeper can only be held liable if the Claimant has fully complied with the strict requirements including 'adequate notice' of £90/£100 charge and prescribed Notice to Keeper letters in time/with mandatory wording. (what can I use as evidence?)

    12. It is believed that this Claimant has not adhered to the BPA Code of Practice and is put to strict proof of full compliance. This Claimant has been exposed in the national press - and was recently investigated by the BPA - for falsifying photo evidence, which was admitted by the Claimant. It is submitted that this is not a parking company which complies with the strict rules of their Trade Body, which were held as a vital regulatory feature in ParkingEye v Beavis. Please see exhibit BX (this has the link and screenshots of the pages from the Telegraph: http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/crime/11858473/Parking-firm-UKPC-admits-faking-tickets-to-fine-drivers.html)

    13. The Claimant is put to strict proof that none of the photos taken of my vehicle at the time the PCN's were issued were not similarly altered.

    14. This case can be easily distinguished from ParkingEye v Beavis which the Judges held was 'entirely different' from most ordinary economic contract disputes and UKPC have not shown any valid 'legitimate interest' allowing them the unusual right to pursue anything more than a genuine pre-estimate of loss.

    15. If the driver(s) on each occasion were considered to be trespassers if not allowed to park there, then only the landowner can pursue a case under the tort of trespass, not this Claimant, and as the Supreme Court in the Beavis case confirmed, such a matter would be limited to the landowner themselves claiming for a nominal sum.

    16. Save as expressly mentioned above, the Particulars of Claim is denied in its entirety. It is denied that the Claimant is entitled to the relief claimed or any relief at all.

    Statement of Truth:
    I confirm that the contents of this statement are true to the best of my knowledge and belief.
  • And here is my Witness Statement:

    Claim Number: XXXXXXXXXX
    UK Parking Control v IndigoMondayToyota
    Witness Statement of Defendant


    1. My name is XXXXXXXXXX. I live at XXXXXX I am the Defendant in this matter. I make this statement from my own knowledge and personal experience.

    2. On the relevant dates of **th ******** 2013, **th ******* 2013, **th ******* 2013, **th ******* 2013, **th ******* 2013, **th ******* 2013, **th ******* 2013, **th ******* 2013, **th ******* 2013, **th ******* 2013, and **th ***** 2014 I was the registered keeper of a vehicle with the registration mark of XXXX XXX. (I just realised one of those I never received a PCN!)

    3. I am no longer the registered keeper of the above vehicle.

    4. At the time I did not respond to any of the above because for reasons I have expanded upon in my defense.

    5. I received a letter dated the **th ********* 2016 from Small Claims Solicitors (exhibit BX) regarding eleven outstanding PCNs, PCN numbers xxxxxxxx, xxxxxxxx, xxxxxxxx, xxxxxxxx, xxxxxxxx, xxxxxxxx, xxxxxxxx, xxxxxxxx, xxxxxxxx, xxxxxxxx, and xxxxxxxx.

    6. I received a letter dated **th ********* 2016 from Small Claims Solicitors (SCS) with Particulars of Claim enclosed. (exhibit BX)

    7. On the **th ********* 2016 I submitted a Subject Access Request to UK Parking Control for further information via post.

    8. I received a letter dated **th ********* 2016 from UKPC pertaining to information submitted from my Subject Access Request

    9. On the **th ********* 2016 I submitted my initial defense online via https://www.moneyclaim.gov.uk.

    10. I filed my directions questionnaire on the County Court Business Centre (CCBC) and SCS on the **th ******** 2016 online via https://www.moneyclaim.gov.uk.

    11. On the **th ******** 2016 I receive Notice of Allocation to the Small Claims Track.

    I believe that the facts stated in this witness statement are true.
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