Garage ruined engine when car took in for MOT

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  • sartois
    sartois Posts: 162 Forumite
    Thanks for all the responses everyone.

    I've given her a heads up that tomorrow will probably be expensive, and we will go in and see what options they come up with to resolve it.

    It's probably not a neglected car in terms of cleanliness but if I was to put a bet on it I would say that she doesn't even know where the bonnet catch is and the only time the engine has seen the light of day is when the mechanics open it for it's yearly service and MOT.

    This poster was referred to earlier about what should be checked regarding the timing belt issue:

    https://www.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/240384/advice-for-presenters-of-diesel-poster.pdf

    It does say that "As part of the MOT test you will be asked a series of questions to confirm where possible the vehicle’s maintenance history, for example, has the timing belt been
    replaced recently? These questions will be asked before the tester carries out the emissions test"

    Does this mean these questions are an actual part of the MOT and if they were not asked this would be down to the garage not properly carrying out the MOT? I doubt she would even know what a timing belt is but I presume all this stuff is in the service book that they should have checked before doing the work?

    She says that all they asked her was for the keys and double checked her phone number so depending on what they say the cause is then potentially this offers some sort of leverage?
  • AdrianC
    AdrianC Posts: 42,189
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    sartois wrote: »
    Does this mean these questions are an actual part of the MOT and if they were not asked this would be down to the garage not properly carrying out the MOT?

    No.
    so depending on what they say the cause is then potentially this offers some sort of leverage?

    No. If they'd asked, she would probably have said "It's been serviced regularly". If she'd said "Oooh, I have no idea" - they should probably have simply refused to carry out the test, until such time as either she could assure them or they changed the cambelt themselves. At which point, there'd probably be a lot of wailing about how they were taking her for a ride...

    But since it's a chain anyway...
  • Aylesbury_Duck
    Aylesbury_Duck Posts: 13,874
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    sartois wrote: »
    Thanks for all the responses everyone.

    I've given her a heads up that tomorrow will probably be expensive, and we will go in and see what options they come up with to resolve it.

    It's probably not a neglected car in terms of cleanliness but if I was to put a bet on it I would say that she doesn't even know where the bonnet catch is and the only time the engine has seen the light of day is when the mechanics open it for it's yearly service and MOT.

    This poster was referred to earlier about what should be checked regarding the timing belt issue:

    https://www.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/240384/advice-for-presenters-of-diesel-poster.pdf

    It does say that "As part of the MOT test you will be asked a series of questions to confirm where possible the vehicle’s maintenance history, for example, has the timing belt been
    replaced recently? These questions will be asked before the tester carries out the emissions test"

    Does this mean these questions are an actual part of the MOT and if they were not asked this would be down to the garage not properly carrying out the MOT? I doubt she would even know what a timing belt is but I presume all this stuff is in the service book that they should have checked before doing the work?

    She says that all they asked her was for the keys and double checked her phone number so depending on what they say the cause is then potentially this offers some sort of leverage?
    Oh dear. I hope there's a mutually agreeable outcome to all of this, but with regard to your assumption of your friend's knowledge of cars, I would advise that she seeks the guidance of a relative or friend (or youtube) who can show her how to check the things she should be checking at regular intervals, such as oil level, tyre pressures, etc. It really is only a few minutes' work every week and it might save expensive problems on this or other cars in the future, as well as making her safer on her own travels. Also, if you have a friendly garage, get their advice on a suitable servicing schedule for the sort of mileage she does. It will likely be more frequent oil and filter changes and general checks but it will be worth it to reduce the risk of breakdown or safety problems.
  • mrmot
    mrmot Posts: 192 Forumite
    The smoke test procedure is to get the engine to operating temperature, turn it off and measure the oil temperature, 60c minimum - preferably 80c. It's also good practise to check the oil level, too high or low don't proceed with the smoke test and fail it.

    It's possible that if the car has been given a good clear out by driving it relatively hard to the test centre, that it'll get a fast pass which means only one acceleration of the engine up to its governed speed. If it's been used gently, a fast pass isn't going to happen, which means five more engine accelerations, which isn't ideal.

    I had one particularly dirty Skoda that on the 4th or 5th acceleration the engine ran away, which is running uncontrollably using its own engine oil as fuel. It transpired that this car for the last year had been doing a round trip commute of 4 miles, so when the turbo was woken up the oil seals went.

    Some cars, by way of their usage/maintenance are just a time bomb.
  • sartois
    sartois Posts: 162 Forumite
    AdrianC wrote: »
    No.



    No. If they'd asked, she would probably have said "It's been serviced regularly". If she'd said "Oooh, I have no idea" - they should probably have simply refused to carry out the test, until such time as either she could assure them or they changed the cambelt themselves. At which point, there'd probably be a lot of wailing about how they were taking her for a ride...

    But since it's a chain anyway...

    Thanks, it was a bit of a straw clutch in all fairness. I wasn't sure what you meant about a chain so just looked it up... doesn't sound good:

    "A broken chain will most likely result in damage that will result in a complete engine transplant being less expensive than the repairs you’ll need."
  • Did you see my earlier post? Diesel runaway is the most likely scenario. Hardly the garages fault (unless they overfilled it with oil which is possible but they are unlikely to admit it) and apparently something Fiat are well aware of on these engines.
  • Chrysalis
    Chrysalis Posts: 4,140
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    As discussed, diesel engines are run to their governor at MOT time - that's not something most people do in normal use, and certainly not unloaded.


    The process is known to carry a significant risk, and that is why test centres have 'ADVICE TO OWNERS PRESENTING DIESEL VEHICLES' posters up.

    If its not something required of a car during normal use and carries a risk, why is it needed for a MOT test?

    There is no point putting a warning up as MOT is required by law, its not as if the owner can say ok I wont have a MOT done then.

    With that said knowing this I would just stick to petrol vehicles.
  • AdrianC
    AdrianC Posts: 42,189
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    OK - Are you familiar with the basics of valves and pistons, and the four-stroke engine? Suck-squeeze-bang-blow...
    4_Stroke_Engine.gif

    Except it's all going round much faster - even at idle, the crank is going round 15 times a second, while at full revs, that's 75 times a second on a diesel, 100 or more on a petrol. You've got two powerful explosions on each of those revolutions...

    The camshafts operate the valves - at the top. The crankshaft is connected to the pistons (going up and down). The two are tied together, in a precise relationship. If they drift much outside that, bits meet each other, and it gets VERY messy internally.

    It always used to be gears or chains - but it moved to rubber belts, because they were quieter and more efficient. But belts need changing regularly, because they age in the heat of an engine, very rapidly if they get oil on them.

    So manufacturers are going back to chains. But because they're also trying to increase efficiencies, they don't always last the full life of the engine, like they used to, especially if oil changes have been neglected. They usually give audible warning of stretching - through funny noises - but not always, and those noises aren't always heeded...
  • sartois
    sartois Posts: 162 Forumite
    Did you see my earlier post? Diesel runaway is the most likely scenario. Hardly the garages fault (unless they overfilled it with oil which is possible but they are unlikely to admit it) and apparently something Fiat are well aware of on these engines.

    Ah no, sorry I did miss it. Sounds like something that could happen anytime though and just a coincidence/bad luck it happened whilst in the garage?

    Still, will find out for sure tomorrow.
  • Aylesbury_Duck
    Aylesbury_Duck Posts: 13,874
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    sartois wrote: »
    it was a bit of a straw clutch in all fairness.
    There's the problem. They're better when they're made from sticks, and better still from bricks. Then when the engine huffs and puffs, it doesn't fall apart.
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