Neighbour has removed chimney breasts without notice!

2

Comments

  • Annie1960
    Annie1960 Posts: 3,003 Forumite
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    Not really a risk, you just have.


    Yes, I have, and I will keep on. I'm still surprised that people in the industry who consider themselves to be genuine traders tolerate cowboys, and don't want to see them regulated.

    They are taking business away from good traders, and the reputation of everyone in the industry is tarnished by them.

    It's quite remarkable that there is no impetus from the construction workers who do a good job to clamp down on the cowboys. I can't think of any other industry where this would happen.
  • Doozergirl
    Doozergirl Posts: 33,800 Forumite
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    For goodness sake, Annie. No one is going to agree with you when you rub everyone up the wrong way. There's a way of influencing people. Hijacking every thread and metaphorically stomping over the board leaving your own amateur and flawed version of advice, whilst still asking for advice, is not it. Nobody appreciates you accusing us all of being tolerant of cowboys doesn't help either. Not one of us on this board is your builder, so you can stop behaving like we are and putting words in our mouths. We come here to try and be helpful and give the benefit of our experience for free. It is a simple fact that the regulars on this board have helped saved people thousands upon thousands of pounds and also tried to avert disaster before it happens (and also failed). We are not perfect but it is far better than nothing and it is utterly tedious to come here to read accusations every day. It is childish and I will start reporting those posts where I see you doing it again because I find it offensive. I've been here a long time and I'm not easily offended.

    We could do all the things that we know are done in practice on the professionalised side of things under regulation and have explained in some detail. But you don't even like what is tried and tested and that is what makes any conversation pointless. It is a tirade, not a conversation.

    I apologise, OP, for the continued hijacking of your thread. I will step down from my soapbox.
    Everything that is supposed to be in heaven is already here on earth.
  • ComicGeek
    ComicGeek Posts: 1,539 Forumite
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    Annie1960 wrote: »
    At the risk or repeating myself it really is high time the construction industry was regulated.

    And how would regulating the construction industry change this situation? A good builder wouldn't do this, only a cowboy builder and they wouldn't bother with accreditations etc anyway.

    Just think about how long Gas Safe and before that Corgi have been around, and still some people don't check who's playing with their boiler and personal safety. The problem is with individuals, like the OP's neighbour, who don't bother researching - !!!!!!, we've got Google these days people, and while you can't trust 100% of what's on there it will always point you to the right place to ask further questions of a professional!!

    It took the OP a few minutes to ask a question on the phone, why couldn't the OP's neighbour do that before starting on site.
  • Annie1960
    Annie1960 Posts: 3,003 Forumite
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    ComicGeek wrote: »
    And how would regulating the construction industry change this situation? A good builder wouldn't do this, only a cowboy builder and they wouldn't bother with accreditations etc anyway.

    You're not understanding the concept of licensing.

    If all builders had to be licensed, like a driving license, they would be forced to comply or face criminal action.
  • EssexExile
    EssexExile Posts: 6,130 Forumite
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    Annie1960 wrote: »
    If all builders had to be licensed, like a driving license, they would be forced to comply or face criminal action.
    Firstly not all drivers have a license, the same would go for builders.
    Secondly, in the case in hand the builders haven't complied with regulations & may well face criminal action.
    Tall, dark & handsome. Well two out of three ain't bad.
  • Annie1960
    Annie1960 Posts: 3,003 Forumite
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    Doozergirl wrote: »
    For goodness sake, Annie. No one is going to agree with you when you rub everyone up the wrong way.

    This is an emotional argument you are making. My arguments are not emotional. I am looking at from the point of view of a consumer, and your perspective is different.

    There's a way of influencing people. Hijacking every thread and metaphorically stomping over the board leaving your own amateur and flawed version of advice, whilst still asking for advice, is not it. Nobody appreciates you accusing us all of being tolerant of cowboys doesn't help either. Not one of us on this board is your builder, so you can stop behaving like we are and putting words in our mouths.

    You are again interpreting my arguments as though they are emotional ones, which they are not. I am entitled to express my opinion on this forum, and nobody is forcing you to read my posts. My comments were directed towards the OP, who appears to be fairly new.

    You don't have to read my posts if you don't want to. I seem to recall there is even some way you can block my posts from appearing on your screen if you want,

    I deny that I have ever said anything that could be objectively described as offensive. If you have taken offence maybe you are interpreting my posts in a way that is not intended.

    We come here to try and be helpful and give the benefit of our experience for free. It is a simple fact that the regulars on this board have helped saved people thousands upon thousands of pounds and also tried to avert disaster before it happens (and also failed).

    Interesting claim. How have you calculated the 'thousands upon thousands of pounds'? I would be fascinated to see your calculation - can you provide a link to this?

    We are not perfect but it is far better than nothing and it is utterly tedious to come here to read accusations every day. It is childish and I will start reporting those posts where I see you doing it again because I find it offensive. I've been here a long time and I'm not easily offended.

    I do not consider my posts to be childish. They are usually responding to other consumers who have had similar problems to the one I had. I frequently mention places where consumers can get help (insurance policy legal cover if they have it, or Citizens' Advice consumer helpline. for example). I have been criticised by someone who appears to be in the construction industry for repeating this information before, but many of the posters are new and my responses are addressed to them.

    Feel free to report my posts if you wish, but I can see nothing offensive in them. You appear to want to maintain the status quo in the construction industry, and I want to see changes, How is this childish?

    We could do all the things that we know are done in practice on the professionalised side of things under regulation and have explained in some detail. But you don't even like what is tried and tested and that is what makes any conversation pointless. It is a tirade, not a conversation.

    I have not been trying to have a conversation with you or others who represent the construction industry, as I can see you are very stuck in your ways. I have been addressing other consumers, but I see you don't like this. You don't have to read my posts. You appear to want to censor the points I am making to other consumers as you don't like what I'm saying.

    I apologise, OP, for the continued hijacking of your thread. I will step down from my soapbox.

    So what advice or help have you tried to provide to the OP on this thread? I have provided a link to factual information regarding the Party Wall Act which I hope the OP finds useful. I know about this from my perspective as a consumer and home owner. I can see no constructive suggestion from you, but please correct me if I am wrong.
  • teneighty
    teneighty Posts: 1,347 Forumite
    Before this thread gets completely hijacked I will try to offer some advice.

    It depends what stage the work is at now.

    As the OP posted at 10.30 on Friday it could well be that the work is now complete so the Party Wall Act ship has already sailed and the OP has missed that opportunity. It will be up to the OP to prove that damage has occurred as a result of the work and make a civil claim against the neighbour.

    If the work was stopped then the OP needs to get in touch with a local party wall surveyor URGENTLY, like in the next 10 minutes.
    The procedures under the Act can only really be started by the person doing the work but a good party wall surveyor appointed by the OP/adjoining owner should be able to put the fear of god and the threat of eye wateringly expensive court injunctions and legal expenses to the building owner which should concentrate their mind and get the work halted and the necessary notices served.

    The RICS has a consumer helpline which gives access to 30 minutes of free advice regarding party wall issues from a local chartered surveyor Tel 02476 868 555. I haven't tried it but at least it is free. Although really it will probably be better to phone around the local experts and just see who is available immediately.
  • teneighty wrote: »
    Before this thread gets completely hijacked I will try to offer some advice.

    It depends what stage the work is at now.

    As the OP posted at 10.30 on Friday it could well be that the work is now complete so the Party Wall Act ship has already sailed and the OP has missed that opportunity. It will be up to the OP to prove that damage has occurred as a result of the work and make a civil claim against the neighbour.

    If the work was stopped then the OP needs to get in touch with a local party wall surveyor URGENTLY, like in the next 10 minutes.
    The procedures under the Act can only really be started by the person doing the work but a good party wall surveyor appointed by the OP/adjoining owner should be able to put the fear of god and the threat of eye wateringly expensive court injunctions and legal expenses to the building owner which should concentrate their mind and get the work halted and the necessary notices served.

    The RICS has a consumer helpline which gives access to 30 minutes of free advice regarding party wall issues from a local chartered surveyor Tel 02476 868 555. I haven't tried it but at least it is free. Although really it will probably be better to phone around the local experts and just see who is available immediately.

    Thanks for the advice all.

    Work continued through the weekend but not today despite the council officer demanding it to stop on Friday. I had an update from the building control officer today who has advised that they are happy with the structural safety but they have ordered our flue to be sealed, with the caveat that they cannot guarantee its gas/smoke safety. The best way to be sure of safety is for the flues to be lined. Worth noting that building control have attempted to contact the owner today but have not had any response.

    I emailed the owner on Saturday morning (fed up of talking in circles by phone and wanted something more formal) to ask that work cease until building control had issued their report. I also asked for an explanation as to why he had totally disregarded the party wall act, and for his acceptance that a surveyor should be appointed to review the work and recommend actions. So far I have heard nothing despite chasing by text message today.

    Our legal rep has said that we have a case to pursue damages and repair costs (e.g. the liners) but a settlement would be the best way to go. Party Wall act can be started retrospectively but the onus is on the owner and not enforceable. Unless he agrees to a party wall surveyor, it looks like I will have to get somebody on my side to make a best guess on what repairs are required to make the fireplaces safe, and then pursue for the cost.

    So while he is simply ignoring my messages and also not responding to the council I'm unsure where to go. I can't appoint a surveyor if they cannot access the property to assess the work.

    The plot thickens and my blood pressure rises. Must be the heat!
  • teneighty
    teneighty Posts: 1,347 Forumite
    edited 20 June 2017 at 9:23AM
    So your next step is to pay for a camera survey and smoke tests on the affected flues. If it shows the flues are damaged then you will have to approach your neighbour to recover the cost of re-lining the flues. If necessary taking them to court, probably within the small claims/money claim route.

    You only have to show by balance of probability that the neighbour caused the damage and if you can show they blatantly ignored their responsibilities under the Party Wall Act it will massively work in your favour.

    Good Luck
  • Keep_pedalling
    Keep_pedalling Posts: 16,557 Forumite
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    My neighbour did a DIY job of removing their downstairs chimney breast without providing any support for what was left upstairs.

    They did this while we were on holiday, so we only found out about it after they sold the place and my lovely new neighbours came round to explain that they would be carrying out the required remedial work and things might get a bit noisy for a while.
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