Advice on a FPN for littering

24

Comments

  • and all they say is 'don't feed the birds' not 'it's a criminal offence to feed the birds' (presumably because its not else they'd have done her for that and not littering!) or 'feeding the birds constitutes a littering offence which is fineable up to £2500' or something along those lines.


    Sort of in the same way that road signs may well say "no overtaking" or "no vehicles above 2T in weight" or "no parking"

    If there is a sign telling someone not to perform a certain action, surely you don't think that each of those signs should also state "because it's a criminal/civil offence"
  • No of course not but surely feeding birds is much more ambiguous - it's not something I do myself as maybe a little ironically I'm not a huge fan of birds lol but it's also not an unusual thing for people to do and it's not immediately obvious why it would be a problem. I'm not trying to argue the case that people should be able to feed birds in town centres but I really don't think the councils go particularly out of their way to either make the signs very obvious or to say why they don't want the birds fed when they seemingly have people hanging around ready to slap a fine on anyone who does. Seems incredibly heavy handed to me, surely I can't be alone in thinking that the common sense thing for the warden to do would be to approach her when she'd first got the seed out to point out the sign to her rather than watch her until she was done and then give her a penalty - surely that would have then prevented the supposed littering rather than charging money for it after? If the littering was the issue then why not prevent it when given the opportunity, the answer I feel is because it's about the money!
    "Yesterday is gone. Tomorrow not yet come. We have only today. Let us begin."
  • Sooler
    Sooler Posts: 3,108
    First Post First Anniversary Combo Breaker
    Forumite
    edited 14 July 2016 at 2:29PM
    Surely road signs come under legislation like the road traffic act or something. The bird signs may only be advisory, what's the wording of the sign, does it state a penalty? Which council is it?

    Is it a bird feeding sign or a littering sign? what's does the council state about bird feeding?
  • shaun_from_Africa
    shaun_from_Africa Posts: 12,858
    Name Dropper First Post First Anniversary
    Forumite
    Sooler wrote: »
    Surely road signs come under legislation like the road traffic act or something. The bird signs may only be advisory, what's the wording of the sign, does it state a penalty?

    Littering also comes under legislation (Section 87 of the environmental protection act 1990)
    http://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/1990/43/section/87
    87 Offence of leaving litter.
    [F1(1)

    A person is guilty of an offence if he throws down, drops or otherwise deposits any litter in any place to which this section applies and leaves it.

    It might be worth your friend appealing the FPN asking what legislation the penalty is being issued under. If it's that quoted above, there may be a get out by stating that the food put down wasn't left as the birds had removed it.
    It may not work but it's certainly worth a try.
  • maninthestreet
    maninthestreet Posts: 16,127
    First Anniversary
    Forumite
    Littering also comes under legislation (Section 87 of the environmental protection act 1990)
    http://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/1990/43/section/87


    It might be worth your friend appealing the FPN asking what legislation the penalty is being issued under. If it's that quoted above, there may be a get out by stating that the food put down wasn't left as the birds had removed it.
    It may not work but it's certainly worth a try.

    Wasn't there a case a few years ago of someone accidently dropping a chip on the pavement, that was gobbled up by a seagull almost immediately, but they were still issued with an FPN for littering??
    "You were only supposed to blow the bl**dy doors off!!"
  • Malthusian
    Malthusian Posts: 10,898
    First Anniversary First Post Name Dropper Photogenic
    Forumite
    No of course not but surely feeding birds is much more ambiguous

    It's not ambiguous if there's a sign nearby saying "Don't feed the birds".

    It's a fair cop, tell her to pay the fine. I wouldn't tell a friend anything that might cause her to decide to stick her heels in and thereby cost her £2,420 or more.
  • JJG
    JJG Posts: 329
    First Anniversary Name Dropper First Post
    Forumite
    Wasn't there a case a few years ago of someone accidently dropping a chip on the pavement, that was gobbled up by a seagull almost immediately, but they were still issued with an FPN for littering??

    I seem to recall someone getting a FPN for littering after dropping a £10 note by accident.
  • Littlebit14
    Littlebit14 Posts: 30
    Combo Breaker First Anniversary
    Forumite
    Just thought I'd pop back and update - she successfully got the fine cancelled. Thanks all.
    "Yesterday is gone. Tomorrow not yet come. We have only today. Let us begin."
  • electic
    electic Posts: 40 Forumite
    That's good. Thank you for taking the time to update us - it's really helpful for someone searching the forum in the future.
  • Ectophile
    Ectophile Posts: 7,276
    First Anniversary Name Dropper First Post
    Forumite
    Malthusian wrote: »
    It's not ambiguous if there's a sign nearby saying "Don't feed the birds".

    It's a fair cop, tell her to pay the fine. I wouldn't tell a friend anything that might cause her to decide to stick her heels in and thereby cost her £2,420 or more.

    Just because somebody chose to put up a sign saying "Don't feed the birds", it doesn't mean that it is a criminal offence to feed birds there.

    People can stick up any sign they like - that doesn't mean it's enforceable.
    If it sticks, force it.
    If it breaks, well it wasn't working right anyway.
This discussion has been closed.
Meet your Ambassadors

Categories

  • All Categories
  • 342.5K Banking & Borrowing
  • 249.9K Reduce Debt & Boost Income
  • 449.4K Spending & Discounts
  • 234.6K Work, Benefits & Business
  • 607.1K Mortgages, Homes & Bills
  • 172.8K Life & Family
  • 247.4K Travel & Transport
  • 1.5M Hobbies & Leisure
  • 15.8K Discuss & Feedback
  • 15.1K Coronavirus Support Boards