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Yup. This kind of repressive violence is going to make any fence-sitters think long and hard about what they want to be apart of; Free Catalonia or Fascist Spain?
If the majority of the population in a region want to secede, what can a national government realistically do? Beat them all up? Arrest all the politicians on the other side and hold them without trial? Start sharpening stakes for the severed heads they're gonna mount on the town halls, as an example to dissuade the rebels?
It's shocking to see such a ham-fisted attempt to prevent a ballot in Europe in the 21st century, more like something you'd expect in the more lawless parts of Africa, for goodness' sake!Every increased possession loads us with a new weariness.
John Ruskin
Veni, vidi, eradici
(I came, I saw, I kondo'd)
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Some nasty stuff going on there indeed! It would be a small step from that to politicians using police to interfere in a legally-arranged election. Why not just organise a proper referendum for them and see that it is carried out properly according to law, then see what the result is? If the result is in favour of independence then let them get on with it!One life - your life - live it!0
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Badly-handled by the Spanish Government re Catalonia region.
Am in process of trying to find out why a part of Spain wants to leave Spain - but there is a failure of politics/diplomacy going on as to how to handle this.
Can't help feeling their Government should have seen this coming and thought out how to deal with it much more clearly - and peacefully - than this.
Treating the protestors like that is not a good idea and is likely to "put backs up", rather than dealing with the situation in a more constructive/diplomatic way.
Smooth logical diplomats behind the scenes - and not aggression - is surely a better way to handle this.0 -
If the majority of the population in a region want to secede, what can a national government realistically do? Beat them all up? Arrest all the politicians on the other side and hold them without trial? Start sharpening stakes for the severed heads they're gonna mount on the town halls, as an example to dissuade the rebels?
Basically, yes.
If Catalonia uses this vote to declare independence then Madrid will have to ask itself if it is going to impose its laws by force, if the Catalan people choose their future peacefully and democratically.
It doesn't take many armed police to make people behave when they have children at home. Look at those african states, it's the minority (on both sides) that have the guns, the majority just want to get on with their lives.
I'll admit I'm a coward, but I'd rather be alive and whole for my children than 'fight the government' for the right for a free vote. Maybe before the sprogglets.Almost everything will work again if you unplug it for a few minutes, including you. Anne Lamott
It's amazing how those with a can-do attitude and willingness to 'pitch in and work' get all the luck, isn't it?
Please consider buying some pet food and giving it to your local food bank collection or animal charity. Animals aren't to blame for the cost of living crisis.0 -
Honestly, and I'm a little ashamed to admit it, if I were a Catalonian planning to vote, I wouldn't.
https://youtu.be/XUz2YDo8aTY
This made me feel sick. Watch the first two seconds carefully. It was completely intentional.
Coming out of lurking for this....
That is bl00dy disgusting , I don't know how everyone standing around did nothing. Depends how many police were there I guess, and a pretty frightening experience so easy to look on saying what I have.
Wouldn't be surprised after that if the citizens aren't tooled up next time they fancy voting or having an opinion on anything.
Jeeze..... they should be utterly ashamed of themselves. :mad:Yep...still at it, working out how to retire early.:D....... Going to have to rethink that scenario as have been screwed over by the company. A work in progress.0 -
A crisis for the EU as it sat on its hands and let the Spanish government behave atrociously in the run-up and apparently has nothing to say about the vile actions of the police on the day: http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2017/10/01/eu-crisis-catalonian-referendum-descends-violence/
Heads should roll for this. The images are all around the world and, if the EU cannot even stand firm for order and democracy in Europe, they should keep their bleedin' traps shut about the rest of the world. Absolutely bliddy disgraceful.:mad:Every increased possession loads us with a new weariness.
John Ruskin
Veni, vidi, eradici
(I came, I saw, I kondo'd)
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Morning all,
Well Mr Rajoy really shot himself in the foot yesterday, didn't he? 90% in favour of independence!
The polls gave it that only about 45% were in favour, so if he had let the vote go ahead legally, he'd have stood a good chance of a no vote.
It looks like anyone wanting to vote no, would have stayed at home to avoid being beaten up by the police. Thus the only ones who went out to vote were those stirred up enough to risk it.
Do you have to be thick to be a politician?0 -
A good summary, jk0!Well Mr Rajoy really shot himself in the foot yesterday, didn't he? 90% in favour of independence!
The polls gave it that only about 45% were in favour, so if he had let the vote go ahead legally, he'd have stood a good chance of a no vote.
It looks like anyone wanting to vote no, would have stayed at home to avoid being beaten up by the police. Thus the only ones who went out to vote were those stirred up enough to risk it.
Do you have to be thick to be a politician?
I'm horrified by the whole thing 2023: the year I get to buy a car0 -
In fairness though he's probably watched other examples of referendums where it was a "no" result and the minority refused to accept it/campaigned and another referendum was held at some point where it had changed to a "yes" vote and they did accept that:cool:.
We've also recently voted to Brexit - and some of the minority are refusing to accept it and demanding things like another referendum.
So - just how does one get the minority in a referendum to accept it - rather than demanding a re-run unless and until they get the result they want?
We've also seen that when a referendum question clearly specifies exactly what people are voting for that, at whatever point the vote says "Yes" (be it 1st time, 2nd time, whatever) that it tends to get regarded as "thin end of wedge" and shoving on to get more than was actually voted for. To quote one example of ours - we voted for the Common Market - we didnt vote for the whole "United States of Europe" concept. But the "thin end of wedge" was in and they wedged and they wedged and they wedged. To use an old phrase they "Used a sprat to catch a mackerel".0 -
People panicking on a train 'self-evacuated' when a passenger started reading aloud from a bible.
It's been a while since we had a hypothetical scenario:
You're on a train, someone starts reading aloud from a religious text and - when asked to stop - stands quietly with his head down.
What would you do?
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-london-41466140It happened outside Wimbledon station in south-west London at 08:30 BST as a man apparently began reading lines aloud from the Bible.
Commuters became scared when the man began quoting phrases such as, "death is not the end", a passenger said.
He said someone then asked the man to stop speaking "as he was scaring people" and "the guy stopped and stood there with his head down".That sounds like a classic case of premature extrapolation.
House Bought July 2020 - 19 years 0 months remaining on term
Next Step: Bathroom renovation booked for January 2021
Goal: Keep the bigger picture in mind...0
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