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The text of mine you quoted was about a person with chickens who was looking for a new tenancy. It is impossible for that prospective tenant to have a secure or assured tenancy because they aren't a current tenant and they have specified that their existing tenancy that is being ended is an AST.
Other types of tenancies certainly could apply, but not to a prospective tenant.0 -
I spoke to the legal man at the council who was happy to email me saying that the council can't stop you keeping chickens on allotments.
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Please read the link to the Thorpe Report and the rest of paragraph 54 of that report which contradicts that claim, specifying that:
"Since 1950 the occupier of an allotment garden has ... been permitted to keep hens or rabbits on his land" .. and then moves on to give the specific requirements that I quoted.
Artful quoted you the act itself, which is clear.
The report you quote does not imply that the right is restricted to allotment gardens only.
As said the Act states that it applies to any tenancy for any land.
Why trying to argue at all costs?
In addition, the point is still relevant for ASTs because, while it is understood that the landlord can easily evict, it means that the landlord will not be able to claim breach of contract irrelevant of what the tenancy agreement states.
Eventually, it is not obvious to me that a landlord would give notice as soon as he learns that a couple of chickens are being kept in the garden.
As long as they are kept in an enclosure there're not causing damage.0 -
Right. Clearly permitted, same as rabbits.poppysarah wrote: »I spoke to the legal man at the council who was happy to email me saying that the council can't stop you keeping chickens on allotments.
The Act is about allotments. Picking odd pieces of an Act and applying them outside its context might be fun but that's not how they are supposed to be read.jjlandlord wrote: »Artful quoted you the act itself, which is clear.
If you don't like it, go ahead and pretend that it applies. I've pointed you to more than ample resources that show you want it's for and when it applies. If you really want more you can go and look up the discussions in Parliament in Hansard prior to its passing to see what they say, or the report on Allotments that led to the introduction of the Act.0 -
The Act is about allotments. Picking odd pieces of an Act and applying them outside its context might be fun but that's not how they are supposed to be read.
If you don't like it, go ahead and pretend that it applies. I've pointed you to more than ample resources that show you want it's for and when it applies.
Read the Act first, then argue if you have arguments (you don't):12 Abolition of contractual restrictions on keeping hens and rabbits.
(1) Notwithstanding any provision to the contrary in any lease or tenancy or in any covenant, contract or undertaking relating to the use to be made of any land, it shall be lawful for the occupier of any land to keep, otherwise than by way of trade or business, hens or rabbits in any place on the land and to erect or place and maintain such buildings or structures on the land as reasonably necessary for that purpose:
Provided that nothing in this subsection shall authorise any hens or rabbits to be kept in such a place or in such a manner as to be prejudicial to health or a nuisance or affect the operation of any enactment.
If the legislator had wanted this to apply only to allotments, he would have said so instead of using the very clear terms of 'any tenancy' and 'any land'.0 -
theartfullodger wrote: »Yes, but clause 12 says..
which means not just "allotment gardens"..
As I suggested earlier, it needs a test case. And not all tenacies are ASTs. They might be Rent Act, Secure, Assured.. for all of which S21 doesn't apply..
Cheers!jjlandlord wrote: »Thanks artful.
Indeed right to keep hens and rabbits is in regards to any land, not just allotment (though section is in Allotment Act, indeed)Please read the link to the Thorpe Report and the rest of paragraph 54 of that report which contradicts that claim, specifying that:
"Since 1950 the occupier of an allotment garden has ... been permitted to keep hens or rabbits on his land" .. and then moves on to give the specific requirements that I quoted.
Jamesd, I usually agree with you but I cannot do so here.
The report is correct insofar as allotments are concerned, but it does not say that s.12 applies ONLY to allotment land.
The Act has a dual purpose, as evidenced in the introduction.
The structure of the Act has a separate heading for s.12.
Section 12 refers repeatedly to "any land".
If it was intended to apply to just allotments, the intro would have been worded differently, there would be no separate heading before s.12, and it would refer to allotments rather than any land.
Statues are strictly construed and this is clear cut.
Just because the title is "Allotments" is not determinative.0 -
FWIW my understanding (I kept urban chickens for about 6 years) is that unless there's a clause in the deeds of your house, or a local bylaw against it, you can keep chickens in any house that you own. Obviously the tenancy agreement is relevant for any house you rent.
It should be noted that hens DO cause damage to gardens - they like to create dustbathes that resemble moon craters in lawns, eat plants and if in a relatively confined space for a period of time, the grass can be reluctant to grow back. So, anyone who does keep chickens in a rented property should be prepared for some loss of deposit.
However, they don't really attract cats if they're properly enclosed - I just watched a neighbourhood cat run headlong into the chickenwire when we first got them, bounce off, and decide that it wasn't worth the effort. Ditto foxes - chickens must be locked in at night, and foxes are largely nocturnal.0 -
The text of mine you quoted was about a person with chickens who was looking for a new tenancy. It is impossible for that prospective tenant to have a secure or assured tenancy because they aren't a current tenant and they have specified that their existing tenancy that is being ended is an AST.
Other types of tenancies certainly could apply, but not to a prospective tenant.
Sigh!
A secure council tenant moving to another property in the same council area may well be granted another secure tenancy. Or a new tenant might be (probably won't..) be offered a "flexible council tenancy".
Many/most Housing Associations grant Assured tenancies as well as ASTs..
A couple of years ago there was a fashion amongst HMO "experts" (I never saw the arguement myself..) to grant AS's rather than ASTs0 -
Yes, I agree that in that for an existing rather than prospective tenant other tenancies could apply. That's irrelevant to the case that the quoted text came from because the original tenancy of the person asking the question is an AST.
Interesting that HA's will grant assured tenancies, I wasn't aware of that, thanks! In those cases I agree with you about their effects.0 -
V_Chic_Chick wrote: »FWIW my understanding (I kept urban chickens for about 6 years) is that unless there's a clause in the deeds of your house, or a local bylaw against it, you can keep chickens in any house that you own. Obviously the tenancy agreement is relevant for any house you rent.
Section 12 is explicit that the right to keep chickens exists irrespective of any clause in a tenancy etc. So the tenancy cannot over-ride statute. [STRIKE]Neither can a local bye-law over-ride statute.[/STRIKE]
Edit: - part struck through in light of further posts below.0
This discussion has been closed.
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