failed ESA medical because husband hasnt attempted to commit suicide!

Bulldog-1979 · 8 April 2017 at 1:28AM

I apologise in advance for the long message but this is unbelievable!
My husband suffers from: Depression, Anxiety & has a myocardial bridge - He was in the Support Group for ESA until 15th last month when the ESA was stopped as he scored "0" in the medical!?.....

I did a mandatory reconsideration because the person got it wrong and said things my husband could do - that he didn't say!

In the meantime we went to claim JSA (I went with him as he struggles going out on his own) - We were sent back from the JC saying he isnt well enough to claim- they said it was obvious he wasn't well! shaking sweating white - blue lips allsorts! - got told we need to make a new claim for ESA - so went home and tried - they said we couldnt and i needed to take him in to JC again - made another appt - the same thing happened again! - phoned ESA - same thing! - phoned JC and said i wont do it to my husband and bring him in again - they said that i need to get sick note off Dr saying he is worse and to do a fresh claim for ESA!

After 2 weeks of messing around with this someone FINALLY took the application but wanted another sick note off the Dr as it only said "Depression" signed off for 3 months - Dr was not happy that they questioned her medical opinion so she wrote another one detailing hwo he has gone worse and the max of her tablets she could prescribe and that he has been referred to mental health team.

in the meantime - Yep you guessed it - we found out they upheld their decision!!! one of the paragraphs which stated that the health care professional had no reason to lie!!!!?????
-so the Dr and myself and my husband must have!

It gets worse............

..blah blah... "You are able to engage in conversation with people and have no recent history of dis-inhibited or aggressive behaviour. You have mental health problems and report occasional suicidal thoughts but you have not acted on these and have no fixed plan or intent.
You have no psychiatric input and have had no hospital admissions for a number of years." (he has previously been sectioned for a number of months for trying to commit suicide!)

..................

I don't know what to say!..... We have just found out that his new claim has been accepted and it was backdated to 15th - HOWEVER - as its a new claim they don't pay the 1st 7 days AND the amount is reduced due to him having to wait for the 13 week assessment before he can be put on support group again (if he passes they said!!!)

Apart from having a rant (I apologise) is this Normal/Acceptable? - Is there anything i can do?

I have rent i have to pay which i've not been able to and now we get less by approx £60 a week?:mad::(

DevilsMoJo · 8 April 2017 at 2:13AM

Hello Bulldog

This is normal but it's not acceptable.

You should print off the SSCS1 form, fill it in and send it to the Independent Tribunal asap.

I hope you win against these wicked people

Bulldog-1979 · 8 April 2017 at 2:36AM

Thanks for commenting - Ive been told I cant send it to a tribunal because we have a new claim?

poppy12345 · 8 April 2017 at 6:15AM

Bulldog-1979 wrote: »

I apologise in advance for the long message but this is unbelievable!
My husband suffers from: Depression, Anxiety & has a myocardial bridge - He was in the Support Group for ESA until 15th last month when the ESA was stopped as he scored "0" in the medical!?.....

I did a mandatory reconsideration because the person got it wrong and said things my husband could do - that he didn't say!

In the meantime we went to claim JSA (I went with him as he struggles going out on his own) - We were sent back from the JC saying he isnt well enough to claim- they said it was obvious he wasn't well! shaking sweating white - blue lips allsorts! - got told we need to make a new claim for ESA - so went home and tried - they said we couldnt and i needed to take him in to JC again - made another appt - the same thing happened again! - phoned ESA - same thing! - phoned JC and said i wont do it to my husband and bring him in again - they said that i need to get sick note off Dr saying he is worse and to do a fresh claim for ESA!

After 2 weeks of messing around with this someone FINALLY took the application but wanted another sick note off the Dr as it only said "Depression" signed off for 3 months - Dr was not happy that they questioned her medical opinion so she wrote another one detailing hwo he has gone worse and the max of her tablets she could prescribe and that he has been referred to mental health team.

in the meantime - Yep you guessed it - we found out they upheld their decision!!! one of the paragraphs which stated that the health care professional had no reason to lie!!!!?????
-so the Dr and myself and my husband must have!

It gets worse............

..blah blah... "You are able to engage in conversation with people and have no recent history of dis-inhibited or aggressive behaviour. You have mental health problems and report occasional suicidal thoughts but you have not acted on these and have no fixed plan or intent.
You have no psychiatric input and have had no hospital admissions for a number of years." (he has previously been sectioned for a number of months for trying to commit suicide!)

.................. I don't know what to say!..... We have just found out that his new claim has been accepted and it was backdated to 15th - HOWEVER - as its a new claim they don't pay the 1st 7 days AND the amount is reduced due to him having to wait for the 13 week assessment before he can be put on support group again (if he passes they said!!!)

Apart from having a rant (I apologise) is this Normal/Acceptable? - Is there anything i can do?

I have rent i have to pay which i've not been able to and now we get less by approx £60 a week?:mad::(

That's awful but is there any reason you didnt send it to Appeal Tribunal as most MR decisions remain the same?

NeilCr · 8 April 2017 at 7:15AM

I am slightly confused about this. It does seem surprising that they allowed a new claim so quickly after the ESA was stopped with no points I must say

If you appeal to a tribunal the ESA will be reinstated.

You say you have been told that you can't take it to a tribunal now you have a new claim. Who by?

Someone more knowledgable than me, like Alice, will be along to clarify, hopefully, but my sense is to suggest that you go to CAB or similar as soon as possible for clarification. You'll need to do it quickly because of the time limit of four weeks to get the SSC1 in. If that's not possible I'd send the SSC1 anyway and see what they actually say on receipt

Londonsu · 8 April 2017 at 7:29AM

Sorry to be pedantic but its not escape goat its scapegoat
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scapegoat

paragon909 · 8 April 2017 at 8:12AM

Londonsu wrote: »

Sorry to be pedantic but its not escape goat its scapegoat
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scapegoat

One can't apologies for being a sad pathetic troll. Am not sure the OP has time to worry about a space or a joint word!

FBaby · 8 April 2017 at 8:39AM

Many people work whilst suffering from depression and taking antidepressants and same with a myocardial bridge which is most instances is harmless, so these diagnosis alone is not a door to claiming esa.

You therefore need to provide evidence as to how these two conditions are preventing him from engaging in work. If indeed he is not under the care of a consultant, or receiving regular intense therapy, how is the DWP to be reassured that your husband is indeed incapable of work?

It sounds like you need more clinical evidence of how his conditions are preventing him from working. Do you have a detailed letter from his GP stating that his anxiety/depression is too severe to consider engaging in work? Is he on the waiting list for counselling?

Tolly_T · 8 April 2017 at 9:15AM

You have no psychiatric input and have had no hospital admissions for a number of years.

This makes me so angry. Many years ago lack of a psychiatrist might have been a useful indicator of the severity of a claimant's illness but not these days.

There is not enough funding for mental health services and this means they have changed how they work, at least in my area. Patients are managed far more by their GP with a referral to a psychiatrist for advice as needed but they'll be discharged back to their GP very quickly.

Inpatient treatment isn't good for patients. As a last resort it may be necessary but services acknowledge that inpatient treatment can affect patients quite badly so they won't be admitted as often as they used to be years ago. This is more likely to be the reason that he hasn't had any hospital admissions for a number of years rather than it being because his mental health has improved. Add to that the lack of funding, reduced numbers of inpatient beds etc. etc.

Another problem is that after many years of treatment for mental health problems a patient is likely to have tried many of the medications and therapies available and often will know what works and what doesn't, and possibly will have found that nothing works for them. Why would someone keep going back to a psychiatrist when they don't believe they will help?

the health care professional had no reason to lie!!!!?????

Plenty of the assessors lie but lets assume this one didn't. Isn't it possible that they just got it wrong? DWP staff need to understand that it isn't possible to use observations during a short assessment and a few simple indicators (lack of psychiatrist, no recent suicide attempt) to assess the impact that a mental illness has on a claimant. They need to go back to trusting GP reports and to a certain extent trusting what the claimant says. The current system isn't working. I realise trusting what a claimant says is frowned on because of the potential for fraudulent claims but when someone has a long history of mental illness along with being sectioned it's less likely that the claimant will have no problems. Mental health treatment isn't that good for such severe illnesses and problems are likely to remain, varying in severity over time, rather than completely disappear after treatment.

I'm sorry I don't have any advice. It does seem to be normal but it shouldn't be accepted. Hopefully it will all be sorted out with the current claim. I'd encourage you to let your MP know the problems that you've had. I'm sure they're aware of the problems but it makes it real when they meet people who have been directly affected.

pmlindyloo · 8 April 2017 at 10:08AM

I wonder if this will help.

Getting ESA whilst appealing

On or after 30 March 2015 if you are appealing against a decision that you have failed the Work Capability Assessment(WCA), then depending on the facts, you can still be treated as having limited capability for work and so be entitled to ESA whilst appealing in the following situations;

if the WCA failure that you are appealing against is the first such failure (or the first since a previous decision that you passed the WCA),
where the WCA failure that you are appealing is the second or subsequent WCA failure and your condition has got significantly worse or you have a new health condition.

I think the new claim was allowed because the doctor eventually wrote that the claimant's condition had worsened?

I also think the appeal can go ahead for the original claim.

I agree that help from CAB asap because of the time limits should be a priority.

Trouble is the call centre staff are just not trained properly and it is hit or miss whether you get someone who knows the 'rules'.

rockingbilly · 8 April 2017 at 10:12AM

Tolly_T wrote: »

They need to go back to trusting GP reports and to a certain extent trusting what the claimant says. The current system isn't working. I realise trusting what a claimant says is frowned on because of the potential for fraudulent claims but when someone has a long history of mental illness along with being sectioned it's less likely that the claimant will have no problems. .
.

Unfortunately a GP is not normally in a knowledgeable position to give a report into how patients cope with life. There are descriptors that make up both ESA and PIP - how on earth could a GP make any comment on these if he/she has not witnessed them on a daily basis?
This is why a report from an OT (probably one that is involved with Social Services) is the best evidence that could be obtained.
If the DWP were to start trusting what claimants had claimed where would that leave us? There would be a certain sector of society that would immediately start to abuse that.
It was even highlighted in the recent 2nd PIP report that the DWP distrust evidence from friends, relatives and carers as they too could be biased.
Where does that leave us?
You have to demonstrate on the balance of probabilities that the assessor has lied.

failed ESA medical because husband hasnt attempted to commit suicide!

IS Mental Health an escape Goat for reducing Benefits bill? 105 votes

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