Being forced into leaving the job

bretts · 26 September 2016 at 10:49AM

Hi

I have been working with a company since last 15 years, which is now on the verge of closing down, I dont know when but it should soon, Considering I have been here for so long I had an open discussion as to what is it that future holds for us as I am the only earning member in a family of 4. They did not say anything except that we are trying, after a few weeks they did not pay me my salary and they have been delaying it by upto a month every month, so this end of september I am due 2 months of salary. I have told them clearly I have no money to pay for my child's nursery but they did not pay so I started looking for a job. I have got one offer now and I might take it but I know they will not pay my outstanding salary or even some expenses that I did for the chairman of the company, I will loose all my redundancy had they closed down. Is there any other way I can sue them for breach of my contract and creating environment which forced me to leave the job as I do not want to ideally leave it, I have about 60 days holidays left as they never approved any holidays when I asked for them in last 3 years.

Guest101 · 26 September 2016 at 10:51AM

Once the company goes into administration / insolvency / etc.

You will be paid your outstanding wage + 28 days holiday + redundancy.

bretts · 26 September 2016 at 11:04AM

Hi Yes thats true but if they dont go into administration or insolvency, I loose all my redundancy right? Hence checking if there is any other way of getting that money out of the company as they have forced me to leave by not paying me or giving me the holidays i am due to get.

duchy · 26 September 2016 at 11:14AM

Small claims court.
If they don't go bust you get a judgement against them , if they do you get your redundancy from the government. Whether they pay up on the judgement is another matter.

The big question is can you afford to sit it out til you get a court date or they go under ?

ACG · 26 September 2016 at 11:33AM

I dont think you would be entitled to redundancy pay if you leave by choice regardless of the situation.

I would also be surprised if you can claim for 60 days holiday pay. Most contracts stipulate something along the lines of use it or lose it. No harm putting it in your claim but I would not hold my breath on that one...the more evidence you have to say holidays were declined repeatedly the more chance you have but just dont bank on getting it.

I suspect your most likely to get any wages due plus holidays from this year.

duchy · 26 September 2016 at 11:45AM

The OP would also be entitled to statutory redundancy pay from the government scheme.

Undervalued · 26 September 2016 at 11:54AM

bretts wrote: »

Hi Yes thats true but if they dont go into administration or insolvency, I loose all my redundancy right? Hence checking if there is any other way of getting that money out of the company as they have forced me to leave by not paying me or giving me the holidays i am due to get.

I am unclear if you are still working there or have left?

If you leave of your own accord you lose any entitlement to redundancy. You might just possibly have a claim for constructive unfair dismissal but such claims are incredibly difficult to win.

You would certainly have a much simpler claim for unpaid wages and untaken holiday. You could also sue for any unavoidable losses cause by them failing to pay on time.

However winning any such claim is a moot point unless there are assets to go after if you have to take enforcement action. Is it a limited company, partnership or sole trader?

If you have not left of your own accord and have actually been made redundant then yes, ultimately you can claim the bare minimum from the government. As you say though, this gets complex if they have not formally gone bust and you may need some expert advice.

Takeaway_Addict · 26 September 2016 at 12:21PM

bretts wrote: »

Hi

I have been working with a company since last 15 years, which is now on the verge of closing down, I dont know when but it should soon, Considering I have been here for so long I had an open discussion as to what is it that future holds for us as I am the only earning member in a family of 4. They did not say anything except that we are trying, after a few weeks they did not pay me my salary and they have been delaying it by upto a month every month, so this end of september I am due 2 months of salary. I have told them clearly I have no money to pay for my child's nursery but they did not pay so I started looking for a job. I have got one offer now and I might take it but I know they will not pay my outstanding salary or even some expenses that I did for the chairman of the company, I will loose all my redundancy had they closed down. Is there any other way I can sue them for breach of my contract and creating environment which forced me to leave the job as I do not want to ideally leave it, I have about 60 days holidays left as they never approved any holidays when I asked for them in last 3 years.

They have no money and you're going to sue them to get what exactly?

Surely a job that pays is better than one that doesn't? Redundancy money isn't a little prize at the end of service, it is there to tide you over between jobs.

Once you are secured in a new job then I would suggest you push for the monies owed but fully expect to get very little IMO

sangie595 · 26 September 2016 at 12:54PM

duchy wrote: »

The OP would also be entitled to statutory redundancy pay from the government scheme.

No, they wouldn't. They have another job to go to, and they would be stupid to sit on that offer and not take it when they may see little or no money for months yet. And when they finally do become eligible for the government scheme, they may not be able to find other employment for a long time. Jobs can be difficult to obtain.

And OP - you will never get 60 days holiday from anyone. Use them or lose them. You have lost anything that doesn't accrue from the current holiday year. That is the law, not contractual. The government scheme will never pay for 60 days, and it is not a debt that you can pursue because you are not entitled in law to carry them forward.

I agree that unpaid wages and holiday pay are currently actionable, but that the chances of seeing any of them are low even if you go to court. And the government scheme will not pay for these either if you leave - the minute you leave then you become a creditor, not an employee, and your priority for payment slips down the list. If there are any assets left you might see a fraction of the money owed, but I doubt it. On that basis, whether it is worth throwing good money after bad in court fees, is a choice you would have to make.

And there is no chance of a constructive dismissal claim (even if there was any prospect of someone to sue!). You would have to complete the whole grievance process first, then make a claim (which costs a lot of money in itself), and I doubt the employer will still exist by then. Yes, it's a breach of contract, but unfair dismissal? The employer is going under. That much is clear. They aren't forcing you out, they are heading for bankruptcy.

Cut your losses, take the new job, and then decide what is worth pursuing.

Guest101 · 26 September 2016 at 2:02PM

sangie595 wrote: »

No, they wouldn't. They have another job to go to, and they would be stupid to sit on that offer and not take it when they may see little or no money for months yet. And when they finally do become eligible for the government scheme, they may not be able to find other employment for a long time. Jobs can be difficult to obtain.

And OP - you will never get 60 days holiday from anyone. Use them or lose them. You have lost anything that doesn't accrue from the current holiday year. That is the law, not contractual. The government scheme will never pay for 60 days, and it is not a debt that you can pursue because you are not entitled in law to carry them forward.

I agree that unpaid wages and holiday pay are currently actionable, but that the chances of seeing any of them are low even if you go to court. And the government scheme will not pay for these either if you leave - the minute you leave then you become a creditor, not an employee, and your priority for payment slips down the list. If there are any assets left you might see a fraction of the money owed, but I doubt it. On that basis, whether it is worth throwing good money after bad in court fees, is a choice you would have to make.

And there is no chance of a constructive dismissal claim (even if there was any prospect of someone to sue!). You would have to complete the whole grievance process first, then make a claim (which costs a lot of money in itself), and I doubt the employer will still exist by then. Yes, it's a breach of contract, but unfair dismissal? The employer is going under. That much is clear. They aren't forcing you out, they are heading for bankruptcy.

Cut your losses, take the new job, and then decide what is worth pursuing.

Will just say that despite leaving ahead of insolvency in a previous role (similar no wages paid) the OR referred me to the insolvency service for payment (both holiday and wages) which was paid.

Whether an oversight or not, i'm unsure.

possibly poor record keeping by the company - so I was still 'on the books'

sangie595 · 26 September 2016 at 6:15PM

Probably the latter. If the resignation is active at the time of insolvency I.e you have already left, the money owed should have been treated as a company debt. It is only existing empires at the time of insolvency who are due payment, and they are a priority - so what current employees are owed comes out of any remaining assets first before creditors are paid.

Being forced into leaving the job

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