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  • FIRST POST
    • Lamplighter
    • By Lamplighter 24th Dec 17, 12:20 AM
    • 26Posts
    • 5Thanks
    Lamplighter
    URGENT: Car Finance / want to avoid Repossession
    • #1
    • 24th Dec 17, 12:20 AM
    URGENT: Car Finance / want to avoid Repossession 24th Dec 17 at 12:20 AM
    Hi there

    Urgent advice needed please - thanks in advance.

    Iím 2.5 yrs into a 4 yr vehicle HP agreement with Barclays Partner Finance. I got a couple of payments behind earlier in the year and agreed a repayment plan to catch up over 12 months, which Iíve been progressing. I have already repaid just over 1/3 of the finance value. However, the car is significantly over its agreed annual mileage, and hence my intention would likely be to pay the balloon rather than the mileage penalty at the end of the term.

    I was forced to move house in October (I rent, and landlord wanted to sell with vacant possession), which was totally unforeseen and not budgeted. Whilst waiting for the return of the deposit, I wasnít able to make the November payment.

    I called Barclays on a Friday whilst on a business trip to discuss, and they told me the account had defaulted. I told them I could make the missed payment, but asked if I could call back on Monday to arrange as I did not have my papers with me. I was told that was ok and a note would be put on the file to that effect.

    I called on the Monday, and a different call handler said the account had been transferred for repossession, as missing the payment on the arranged plan had put me marginally beyond 3 monthsí arrears (by about £50). They told me a letter had been sent on Friday. When I protested that I had called on Friday and been told I could call again Monday, and was doing exactly that, they said the call handler on Friday had been mistaken. When I said I could actually clear the entire arrears from the return of my rent deposit, they advised me it was beyond that stage and there is ďnothing they can doĒ. I also said that repossession was surely in neither partyís best interests, given the likely low sale value at auction and my ability to clear the arrears there and then, but I was told the finance agreement no longer existed because of the default, therefore their hands were tied.

    I have subsequently received a letter from solicitors on behalf of Barclays (TLT LLP) seeking payment of the full balance or recovery of the vehicle (voluntary surrender or otherwise).

    Iíve been given 14 days from date of letter, which has actually given me far less time as it was sent to my old address and was forwarded, and also covers the Christmas period. They advise they are instructed to commence court proceedings without further notice to recover vehicle and outstanding payment.

    I received an annual bonus from my employer in my December salary. My situation is that I can clear the arrears in full, and comfortably cover the monthly payment from my income / expenditure going forward. However, if I lose the car, I would face a significant shortfall due to the low value (high mileage) and I would also need to find and pay for an alternative vehicle. I need a car for work, and I have a disabled son. An added complication is that Iím out of the country from next week until mid January.

    Iím looking for advice as to how I might prevent the repossession of the vehicle, either with Barclays, the solicitors or the court.

    Thanks and Regards
    Lamplighter

    Merry Christmas!
Page 1
    • sourcrates
    • By sourcrates 24th Dec 17, 12:38 AM
    • 13,034 Posts
    • 12,339 Thanks
    sourcrates
    • #2
    • 24th Dec 17, 12:38 AM
    • #2
    • 24th Dec 17, 12:38 AM
    Hi,

    Once an account defaults, it means the relationship between lender and debtor has broken down irretrievably, and the agreement ends.

    We’re you at any time send a default notice ?

    This is required under the consumer credit act, and would give you (usually) 14 or 28 days to bring your account back up to date, but it would only be sent once, further breeches would likely trigger recovery action.

    Unfortunately this seems to of progressed post haste, and you can never 100% rely on what a call handler tells you, once an account defaults, that’s it, the agreement is over, and the full balance becomes payable.

    I’m not sure there’s that much you can do about it now, but I would certainly give National Debtline a call and run it past them, they may be open tomorrow, check their website.
    I'm a Board Guide on the Debt-Free Wannabe, Credit File And Ratings, and
    Bankruptcy And Living With It, boards. "I volunteer to help get your forum questions answered and keep the forum running smoothly".
    Board guides are not moderators and don't read every post. If you spot an abusive or illegal post then please report it to forumteam@moneysavingexpert.com. Any views are mine and not the official line of MoneySavingExpert.com.

    For free debt advice, contact either : Stepchange, National Debtline, or, CAB.
    For Legal advice see : http://legalbeagles.info/
    • Lamplighter
    • By Lamplighter 24th Dec 17, 12:45 AM
    • 26 Posts
    • 5 Thanks
    Lamplighter
    • #3
    • 24th Dec 17, 12:45 AM
    • #3
    • 24th Dec 17, 12:45 AM
    Yes, it was the default notice that prompted my call. I am guilty of underestimating the impact of missing one payment whilst already on a repayment plan. Frustratingly, I could readily have paid £100 during the Friday call (had I known) to at least bring the arrears below 3 payments, but was comforted that I was told I could call back on the Monday.

    Is the requirement for the lender to seek court approval for the repossession purely procedural? Do I have no opportunity to state my case, settle arrears and resume the original agreement?

    Thanks
    • Lamplighter
    • By Lamplighter 24th Dec 17, 12:50 AM
    • 26 Posts
    • 5 Thanks
    Lamplighter
    • #4
    • 24th Dec 17, 12:50 AM
    • #4
    • 24th Dec 17, 12:50 AM
    I guess also I cannot see how the lender is better off by executing the repossession and pursuing me for the shortfall, rather than accepting a full arrears repayment and continuing to receive the monthly instalments (whilst still having the vehicle as surety). I had the feeling that the call handler did not have discretionary decision making powers and was following a script.

    Or am I doomed on this?
    • Arleen
    • By Arleen 24th Dec 17, 1:23 AM
    • 1,101 Posts
    • 824 Thanks
    Arleen
    • #5
    • 24th Dec 17, 1:23 AM
    • #5
    • 24th Dec 17, 1:23 AM
    I guess also I cannot see how the lender is better off by executing the repossession and pursuing me for the shortfall, rather than accepting a full arrears repayment and continuing to receive the monthly instalments (whilst still having the vehicle as surety). I had the feeling that the call handler did not have discretionary decision making powers and was following a script.

    Or am I doomed on this?
    Originally posted by Lamplighter
    You are very much doomed, they already set your account as one to abandon and accept the loss on.
    The problem with giving you another chance is that, well, they did that once already and you didn't keep it. Every time this happens, this starts an expensive process for them, and eventually, they just have to take the "loss" on your account (given that you will owe the shortfall and they can sell the car on finance again there may well not be any loss for them) and focus on other customers. It's brutal, but that's how it is, and any time longer they give you, the higher the loss is for them as car depreciates further.
    • Fireflyaway
    • By Fireflyaway 24th Dec 17, 8:21 AM
    • 1,461 Posts
    • 1,508 Thanks
    Fireflyaway
    • #6
    • 24th Dec 17, 8:21 AM
    • #6
    • 24th Dec 17, 8:21 AM
    Do you have any savings and do you have money left over each month after bills? I'd be tempted to drawn a line under this. Let them take the car and pay off what you need to to get rid of it ( under a payment plan if you can't pay it in one hit). Then buy a cheap run around with cash. My car is probably only worth £400 ( had it 8 years now) if I were to try to sell it but its perfectly respectable looking and drives really nicely. If in the future you want to upgrade then save a bit each month and buy with cash. Car finance is a rip off and stressful! I remember before my car was paid I got into financial problems. I couldn't sleep thinking every noise at night was the company coming to tow it away!
    I would contact the solicitors and talk it through. Being cooperative will work in your favour. They might be able to come to a better arrangement than just letting things take thier course.
    • Lamplighter
    • By Lamplighter 24th Dec 17, 9:46 AM
    • 26 Posts
    • 5 Thanks
    Lamplighter
    • #7
    • 24th Dec 17, 9:46 AM
    • #7
    • 24th Dec 17, 9:46 AM
    Thanks both
    Acceptance of the situation is where I am mentally, it just pains me that there will be a substantial deficit from the auction sale, and financially I can afford to recover the situation having received both return of house deposit and annual bonus from employer. This is why I wanted to check whether the situation can be recovered in any way at this late stage.
    I appreciate your time to respond. Thank you!
    • -taff
    • By -taff 24th Dec 17, 10:46 AM
    • 7,312 Posts
    • 5,365 Thanks
    -taff
    • #8
    • 24th Dec 17, 10:46 AM
    • #8
    • 24th Dec 17, 10:46 AM
    You could try arranging a loan to pay it off in full, it's probably the only way to keep the car, but as above, you may be better off with a car you own outright.
    • stevenhp1987
    • By stevenhp1987 24th Dec 17, 10:58 AM
    • 475 Posts
    • 418 Thanks
    stevenhp1987
    • #9
    • 24th Dec 17, 10:58 AM
    • #9
    • 24th Dec 17, 10:58 AM
    You could try arranging a loan to pay it off in full, it's probably the only way to keep the car, but as above, you may be better off with a car you own outright.
    Originally posted by -taff
    The op has defaulted on the car finance agreement which will make it difficult to get a loan.

    If they are, it would be an extortionate APR.

    Op, you are probably better off Voluntary Terminating (note, this is different and preferable to a Voluntary Surrender) than going through the repossession process.

    You only pay 50% of the total amount to pay (including deposit). Vehicle sales don't count here though. How much have you paid, how much was your deposit? How much is the total to pay / total loan etc.

    http://legalbeagles.info/forums/showthread.php?77612-A-guide-to-voluntary-termination-Your-rights
    Last edited by stevenhp1987; 24-12-2017 at 11:04 AM. Reason: VT info
    • Lungboy
    • By Lungboy 24th Dec 17, 11:04 AM
    • 1,140 Posts
    • 1,075 Thanks
    Lungboy
    I was forced to move house in October (I rent, and landlord wanted to sell with vacant possession)
    Originally posted by Lamplighter
    That was likely the landlord's problem, not yours, but it's too late now.
    • nelly12
    • By nelly12 24th Dec 17, 4:12 PM
    • 204 Posts
    • 73 Thanks
    nelly12
    Unfortunately the right to VT on an HP agreement is lost once the OP fell into arrears.
    The op has defaulted on the car finance agreement which will make it difficult to get a loan.

    If they are, it would be an extortionate APR.

    Op, you are probably better off Voluntary Terminating (note, this is different and preferable to a Voluntary Surrender) than going through the repossession process.

    You only pay 50% of the total amount to pay (including deposit). Vehicle sales don't count here though. How much have you paid, how much was your deposit? How much is the total to pay / total loan etc.

    http://legalbeagles.info/forums/showthread.php?77612-A-guide-to-voluntary-termination-Your-rights
    Originally posted by stevenhp1987
    • Lamplighter
    • By Lamplighter 13th Jan 18, 12:26 AM
    • 26 Posts
    • 5 Thanks
    Lamplighter
    Hi there


    Thanks for all the replies. I've been away for a couple of weeks, and still have possession of my vehicle.


    As an update, I've spoken with TLT (the solicitors acting as recovery agents). They were actually quite helpful on the phone:
    - confirmed that the vehicle was protected (I've paid more than 1/3 total finance value) hence they needed a Return of Goods order from the court;
    - advised me that they've not started proceedings yet, but that in any event I would receive notification from the court of any hearing date;
    - said they would relay my offer of an immediate full arrears payment in order to resume installments per the original agreement;
    - said that in case of a hearing, I should in any event go to the court and state my case that the missed payments were due to a temporary issue rather than affordability, and that I have offered a full arrears clearance, as the judge has the power to rule in my favour.


    Am I being correctly advised as above? Given the protected status, am I safe to leave the car parked on my drive for the time being without fear of a midnight collection?


    As a further update, I contacted the lender (BPF) again following speaking to TLT, who said that they had received notification of my offer of full arrears payment, but would respond to reject the offer. It seems therefore that it will go to court.


    What prep should I do for the court, beyond a statement of means, proof of income, copy of the offer of full arrears payment (which I sent by email to TLT following the telecon), and proof of the house moves that caused the cashflow disturbances? Would I benefit from legal representation, given that there will be a cost involved? Am I likely to succeed? Do I need to consider a Time Order application?


    Thanks again in advance.
    Kind Regards
    • Lamplighter
    • By Lamplighter 15th Jan 18, 11:54 PM
    • 26 Posts
    • 5 Thanks
    Lamplighter
    Hi there

    I wondered if the lack of responses was due to me posting on a Friday night / Saturday morning, so am re-posting my questions. Thanks in advance of any guidance.

    As previous message, TLT advised me to make an offer that they would pass to BPF, which I did. The offer was to clear arrears in full immediately (roughly 3 months + £50) and continue payments as original schedule. I subsequently learned by phone that BPF head of recoveries had reviewed and declined the offer.

    Therefore the matter will go to court, as I believe in order for a Return of Goods order to be obtained (I have paid over a third of the financed amount). TLT advised me to attend, and to bring evidence to the judge of the offer, together with statement of means, and reason for the arrears (temporary cashflow issue as unplanned move of house, waiting for return of deposit).
    1) am I getting fair advice, is the car safe from the threat of removal without a court order, and will I have notification from the court before the hearing?
    2) should I wait for the hearing, or contact the court in advance (for a time order?) even before the notification?
    3) do I need legal representation at the court, or would I be able to make my case by myself?
    Thanks and Regards
    Lamplighter
    • Herzlos
    • By Herzlos 16th Jan 18, 9:22 AM
    • 6,290 Posts
    • 5,679 Thanks
    Herzlos
    You should be able to represent yourself, but I'd try to avoid the court stage as they'll try to burden you with the costs (of the court, the reposession etc).

    Cheapest option for you that keeps the car at this stage is to get a loan to cover full settlement of the finance deal (buying the car from them). I'd look into that first. They should have given you a settlement figure as part of the demand.

    Essentially, they don't want you as a customer any more since you defaulted on the repayment plan and now just want their money back (directly, or by selling the car and chasing you for the rest).

    If your credit rating is already in tatters you might be best just voluntarily giving them the car back and setting up a repayment plan for the remaining balance, but you'd be much better off buying the car off them.

    What's the car worth and what's the settlement figure?
    • Lamplighter
    • By Lamplighter 16th Jan 18, 10:01 AM
    • 26 Posts
    • 5 Thanks
    Lamplighter
    Thanks for the reply
    Finance was £24k (including projected interest over the 4yr term) with £8.5k already paid, therefore £15.5k outstanding, of which £8k is the balloon.
    Car value significantly less than £15.5k, as high mileage, probable value £9-11k.
    Repayment is £375pcm, which is well within my budget.
    My problem is cash, not cashflow (I have a good income incl. a car allowance), and the issue was demonstrably temporary, hence re-instating the finance on the current vehicle is by far my preference.
    • Herzlos
    • By Herzlos 16th Jan 18, 10:22 AM
    • 6,290 Posts
    • 5,679 Thanks
    Herzlos
    Re-instating the finance on the current vehicle is not an option. They gave you 2 options (pay it off or hand the car back) and refused the offer to reinstate the payments. They no longer want you as a customer. It sucks, but that's life.

    If you want to keep the car, you'll need to arrange an entirely new finance agreement with someone else. You might struggle a bit to get a £15.5k loan on an £11k car if you were to go down the car finance root. As a personal loan you'd be OK, if you pass the affordability/credit checks.

    Go to your bank first, and see what they say.
    • k3lvc
    • By k3lvc 16th Jan 18, 10:59 AM
    • 1,989 Posts
    • 3,190 Thanks
    k3lvc
    Given you have a car allowance does your employer offer a subsided loan (or actually a loan of any description) than would not be checked via credit agency ?
    • Lamplighter
    • By Lamplighter 16th Jan 18, 5:13 PM
    • 26 Posts
    • 5 Thanks
    Lamplighter
    Thanks


    @Herzlos - taking a loan to cover the finance on the car is not an option available to me. I understand fully your point about the finance company offering two options - full balance repayment or return of the car - and not wanting to re-instate the payments. However, what is the purpose of the court hearing? What am I trying to achieve there, if not to re-instate the agreement? What is the time-order about, and is it relevant here? Why would TLT advise me to pursue this route?


    @k3lvc - unfortunately an employer loan is not an option - they are a multi-national company with '000s of employees, hence are quite rigid to their policies and procedures, and wouldn't risk to set a precedent in this case.


    Appreciate your responses, thanks.
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