Who to have as PoA??

Sea_Shell · 31 May 2017 at 4:21PM

Kynthia wrote: »

Why wait if you're going to be each other's poa at some point? Its a separate form and fee for each person you give poa to so it's no cheaper to wait and do others together. Having joint accounts does help in the short term if something incapacitated either if you. However if you have individual utility accounts, mobile phone accounts, pensions, ISAs, etc then they have no authority to talk to a spouse.

Is this right, it's per attourney? I thought you had to have decided on who you were going to have 'up front' and get them all on one document. Does that mean if we did each other now, those would remain valid if we then wanted to add extra persons later on?

Sea_Shell · 7 June 2017 at 6:51AM

**** Another Question ****
If one has been making a regular cash gift of £££ each month for say over 3 years....is a PoA still able to carry on making these payments, even if the PoA themselves are the recipient??? Would they have had to get written permission from the Donor (before they lose competance) that they wish these payments to continue.

Also if these payment have been ongoing for a while, and then the question arises for the need for Care, would they be considered Dep of Assets going forwards, if they continue to make these gifts??

Thanks again.

Sea_Shell · 7 June 2017 at 6:53AM

I should add that currently no IHT issues to contend with.

System · 7 June 2017 at 8:50AM

Sea_Shell wrote: »

**** Another Question ****
Would they have had to get written permission from the Donor (before they lose competance) that they wish these payments to continue.
.

Anything is possible, but it needs to be recorded in the Preferences section of a duly stamped and registered LPA.
Depending on the scale of the payments, a greater degree of prior authorisation would be desirable to forstal possible challenge.
For example, I recently asked the OPG several specific hypothetical questions concerning my attorney's authority to continue to take certain actions that I currently do;
1) Managing a family trust as a trustee. The trustees have widespread powers to act for all beneficiaries, not just the person setting up the LPA
2) Making substantial gifts to three children for house deposits
3) Managing self-invested pension assets and draw-down income.
4) Managing other assets in the light of any future circumstances or changes in taxation.

I was told these are all acceptable uses of a LPA, if specified in the Preferences, and they have now been approved and the LPA registered.

Malthusian · 7 June 2017 at 12:38PM

Sea_Shell wrote: »

Also if these payment have been ongoing for a while, and then the question arises for the need for Care, would they be considered Dep of Assets going forwards, if they continue to make these gifts??

Impossible to be definitive, but it sounds extremely unlikely. Especially if you can show that the gifts started before there was any anticipation of requiring care, and did not reduce your standard of living.

Blue_Max_2 · 13 July 2017 at 7:42PM

Kynthia wrote: »

Why wait if you're going to be each other's poa at some point? Its a separate form and fee for each person you give poa to so it's no cheaper to wait and do others together. Having joint accounts does help in the short term if something incapacitated either if you. However if you have individual utility accounts, mobile phone accounts, pensions, ISAs, etc then they have no authority to talk to a spouse.

With many companies you can arrange for a second person to be allowed to deal on your behalf. For example I tried to pay an insurance premium recently but was told I couldn't because of the data protection act (rubbish as I was giving them the information they didn't need tell me anything) and had to speak to the account holder. They did and then realised why I was dealing and paying. I have POA so could have set it up that way but I simply asked if I could be given authority to deal. Not a problem - my name is now on their records though I will probably have to tell them to look each renewal date. I've done similar with mobile phones, landlines and gas & electric bills each time just needing the account holder to confirm I can deal on their behalf. Obviously we've been asked security questions and they have my proof of id via the credit card payments but it's much easier than sending the POA off to them.
This works well for paying utility bills etc. but obviously banking needs POA

Linton · 13 July 2017 at 8:31PM

Sea_Shell wrote: »

**** Another Question ****
If one has been making a regular cash gift of £££ each month for say over 3 years....is a PoA still able to carry on making these payments, even if the PoA themselves are the recipient??? Would they have had to get written permission from the Donor (before they lose competance) that they wish these payments to continue.

Also if these payment have been ongoing for a while, and then the question arises for the need for Care, would they be considered Dep of Assets going forwards, if they continue to make these gifts??

Thanks again.

I have been faced with this one where regular payments to family members were made by standing orders set up by the donor.. The way I looked at it is that whenever an Attorney changes anything they should ask themselves whether making the change is in the interests of the donor. Where the donor has sufficient wealth/income to deal with any care needs then there is no benefit for the donor in stopping a pre-existing payment schedule. Dep of Assets would only come in if the donor became relatively poor and likely to be dependent on Council support. Under those crcumstances I would say that the Attorney should have stopped the payments well before the issue arose.

colsten · 13 July 2017 at 8:50PM

What do people do who don't have relatives? Or none that live close by, or none they trust? Or none who want to take on the PoA?

Malthusian · 14 July 2017 at 12:36PM

colsten wrote: »

What do people do who don't have relatives? Or none that live close by, or none they trust? Or none who want to take on the PoA?

1) Appoint trusted friends
2) In the absence of any friends, appoint a solicitor (which is expensive)
3) Hope the Court of Protection steps in (which is slow)
4) Ignore the problem and struggle on as best you can and hope you don't get defrauded or worse during a mental lapse

Kynthia · 14 July 2017 at 2:32PM

Blue_Max wrote: »

With many companies you can arrange for a second person to be allowed to deal on your behalf. For example I tried to pay an insurance premium recently but was told I couldn't because of the data protection act (rubbish as I was giving them the information they didn't need tell me anything) and had to speak to the account holder. They did and then realised why I was dealing and paying. I have POA so could have set it up that way but I simply asked if I could be given authority to deal. Not a problem - my name is now on their records though I will probably have to tell them to look each renewal date. I've done similar with mobile phones, landlines and gas & electric bills each time just needing the account holder to confirm I can deal on their behalf. Obviously we've been asked security questions and they have my proof of id via the credit card payments but it's much easier than sending the POA off to them.
This works well for paying utility bills etc. but obviously banking needs POA

Will that all still be the case if the account holder loses capacity though? It also doesn't allow you to open new accounts in someone's name once they have lost capacity and you are trying to organise things, save them money, or arrange for new things they need.

Who to have as PoA??

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