Solar Panel Guide Discussion
Comments
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Remember the FiT payments are index-linked - if electricity prices were rising at 15% pa I don't think the RPI would be that far behind.If you believe the calculations that some solar PV companies are handing out (with 15% pa compounded electricity price increases over 25 years) then the price of electricity will exceed the proposed FIT payment of 21p within 5 years and would exceed the current FIT payment of 43p in 10 years. I don't personally believe those numbers but if they were true then it would totally change the economics of PV installation.
It would make for an interesting situation if the FIT payment ended up lower than the price of the electricity generated.2kWp Solar PV - 10*200W Kioto, SMA Sunny Boy 2000HF, SSE facing, some shading in winter, 37° pitch, installed Jun-2011, inverter replaced Sep-2017 AND Feb-2022.0 -
Remember the FiT payments are index-linked - if electricity prices were rising at 15% pa I don't think the RPI would be that far behind.
Energy prices have been rising at 15% or so but RPI is still approx 5% so that differential compounded is what will make the FITs vs electricity price become so different.Remember the saying: if it looks too good to be true it almost certainly is.0 -
All the current arguments about 'wave generation is better', 'wind is more efficient', 'solar generates at times when you don't need it' will go out of the window.
We need it all and we need to start getting all that in place now unless we want to be in hoc to some pretty unpleasant regimes just because they own all the oil or gas in this world, and can crank the prices sky high as the demand rockets and supplies start to reduce.
We always end up having the 'Green card' played on these threads - usually to resounding cheers! Global warming, India & China, fossil fuel shortages etc etc are raised - concluding that the Solar PV generation system in this country is thus justified.
Well the argument about solar 'doesn't go out of the window'!
The panels don't generate at night, their output during the day is patchy and unreliable, and they don't reduce our generating capacity by a single power station.
However even accepting your argument that Solar PV is necessary(which I don't) then how do you justify scores of thousands of tiny systems dotted all over the UK, right up to Northern Scotland.
Can you think of a more inefficient use of resources, scaffolding, fitting panels, metering, wiring , inverters; not to mention the ongoing requirement for maintenance in all these far flung locations.
As said before, if solar is to be mandated, then let us start 'getting that all in place' by having huge solar farms on factory/supermarket roofs or 'brownfield sites' in Devon and Cornwall. The savings in resources and increased efficiency in construction and maintenance are blinding obvious.
Whats more we(the customers) wouldn't need to pay out such stupidly high subsidies by way of FITs - not so many resounding cheers on this thread?;)
We could go the whole hog and build seriously big solar farms in the South of France or Spain and get electricity to UK via the Interconnector*.
*(simplified version) The Interconnector carries electricity produced by French Nuclear Power stations to UK. It copes with serious power mainly when our resources are stretched, or their 'juice' is cheaper.0 -
True, but there is no way that differential could be sustained over 25 years otherwise it would become completely unaffordable. Prices as a whole would increase by a factor of 3.3 and energy prices by a factor of 33!Energy prices have been rising at 15% or so but RPI is still approx 5% so that differential compounded is what will make the FITs vs electricity price become so different.2kWp Solar PV - 10*200W Kioto, SMA Sunny Boy 2000HF, SSE facing, some shading in winter, 37° pitch, installed Jun-2011, inverter replaced Sep-2017 AND Feb-2022.0 -
What Digital Toast and & others are all missing is, it's not electric costs you save (although £70 pa would halve my electricity bill) it's the use of it to cut down on gas bills. a/ hotter electric hot water via immersion heater. b/ all your appliances timed to come on during the day. c/ find cheap storage or other forms of heater to operate during the day to keep the 'fabric' of the house warm. d/ heat applied elsewhere to keep chill off things & dry. e/ get s/hand electric airer to dry clothes during the winter months.
Think back a few years, when buying a house, - cor, central heating, double glazing, fully insulated roof & walls, yes please, oh & solar panels as well, yes please again!!!
Come on guys, you are still thinking inside the box, get outside, get a life!0 -
solarsynic wrote: »What Digital Toast and & others are all missing is, it's not electric costs you save (although £70 pa would halve my electricity bill) it's the use of it to cut down on gas bills. a/ hotter electric hot water via immersion heater. b/ all your appliances timed to come on during the day. c/ find cheap storage or other forms of heater to operate during the day to keep the 'fabric' of the house warm. d/ heat applied elsewhere to keep chill off things & dry. e/ get s/hand electric airer to dry clothes during the winter months.
Think back a few years, when buying a house, - cor, central heating, double glazing, fully insulated roof & walls, yes please, oh & solar panels as well, yes please again!!!
Come on guys, you are still thinking inside the box, get outside, get a life!
Welcome to the forum.
What sort of power do you think the panels generate? -especially in winter.
If you read back through some of the threads here you will find that attempting to use solar generated electricity for the sort of uses you envisage i.e. immersion and heating, will very probably cost you money instead of saving. This is because you certainly will be drawing electricity from mains.
Also any space heating and hot water heating will save you at the rate you pay for gas(around 3p/kWh) not electricity.
I suggest you read some posts on this subject before concluding that people are 'missing' ways of using their solar power.0 -
... Can you think of a more inefficient use of resources...
I can, the war in Afghanistan cost £2.6Billion this this year. Thats my hard earned tax money going to fight a pointless war, killing people and they dont even have any oil or gas for us to take...
Just think if those resources had been funnelled into energy projects, we could have wave power up and running, or a new energy storage system, or a smart grid. And some young men would still be alive...0 -
I certainly agree. The point is certainly being missed that the world in which we are debating these things won't be around for much longer. The developing world is expanding with the Chinese and Indians wanting all the consumer goods that they make and sell to us, themselves. Their energy usage will spiral - is already spiralling - upwards. Fossil fuels will further increase in cost.
We are going to need to move into a world with wall to wall solar, wind, wave and nuclear power and develop storage technologies to suit. We need to roll out appliances that have intelligent load shedding (freezers that drop to lower temperatures when in surplus and shut down at peak periods) and tariffs that do the same, immersion heaters that come on automatically when there is surplus power to store energy.
France had long since (20 years ago?) had an electricity tariff where you get cheaper electricity normally, but on up to X days per year you see an red light come on in the hall as a warning and your tariff increases to many times the normal rate. People shut the house down, cover over the freezer with a duvet and go out on these days - go shopping or out to the restaurant or visit friends and relatives.
All the current arguments about 'wave generation is better', 'wind is more efficient', 'solar generates at times when you don't need it' will go out of the window. We need it all and we need to start getting all that in place now unless we want to be in hoc to some pretty unpleasant regimes just because they own all the oil or gas in this world, and can crank the prices sky high as the demand rockets and supplies start to reduce.
The load shedding devices idea sounds great, how would they be controlled? Internet connection maybe?0 -
The load shedding devices idea sounds great, how would they be controlled? Internet connection maybe?
It is good question, but I'd guess it would come as a tone down the mains. The technology has been around for years. Thorn had remote meter reading and control installed and working in the 1990s. I would assume that Smart metering plans depends on it.
The messages necessary would be very simple and one way and could also be sent over Radio 4 LW (it has been tried).
We just need the will at EU level to legislate that all new appliances after a certain date have it fitted.4kWp, Panels: 16 Hyundai HIS250MG, Inverter: SMA Sunny Boy 4000TLLocation: Bedford, Roof: South East facing, 20 degree pitch20kWh Pylontech US5000 batteries, Lux AC inverter,Skoda Enyaq iV80, TADO Central Heating control0 -
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