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  • FIRST POST
    • robsters
    • By robsters 14th Feb 18, 11:50 PM
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    robsters
    Flow Energy Final Bill through the roof
    • #1
    • 14th Feb 18, 11:50 PM
    Flow Energy Final Bill through the roof 14th Feb 18 at 11:50 PM
    Ok so we moved out of a 1 bedroom flat we lived there for 10 months from 1 april 2017 to 30th Jan 2018, i was paying £64 per month for electrix but flow now claim my final bill i need to pay them an extra £777!!!! i have attached a copy of my metre readings from when i moved in to when i moved out, I am so lost on what to do! i do not have this kind of money i am a parent with very basic income job as well.

    moved in metre reading day reading 02333 moved out reading was 09432
Page 1
    • CashStrapped
    • By CashStrapped 14th Feb 18, 11:58 PM
    • 1,115 Posts
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    CashStrapped
    • #2
    • 14th Feb 18, 11:58 PM
    • #2
    • 14th Feb 18, 11:58 PM
    We need tariff cost: the pence per kwh and standing charge, these will be on the bill calculation.

    We will also need the dates those readings were taken (if different from those above). Also were those readings ones given by you? Or were either of them estimates? The bill will tell you.

    Just a bit of maths required to work out what you owed.
    Last edited by CashStrapped; 15-02-2018 at 12:16 AM.
    • robsters
    • By robsters 15th Feb 18, 12:18 AM
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    robsters
    • #3
    • 15th Feb 18, 12:18 AM
    • #3
    • 15th Feb 18, 12:18 AM
    02333 was on 29th march 2017 and 09432 was final read on 30th jan 2018 both day readings we talking of here as no issue with night reading,

    bill says unit rate day 217.okwh at 14.178p all of it very hard to understand :/ also worried maybe my neighbours fiddle with the metre but now we moved i dont have access to check now
    • CashStrapped
    • By CashStrapped 15th Feb 18, 12:25 AM
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    CashStrapped
    • #4
    • 15th Feb 18, 12:25 AM
    • #4
    • 15th Feb 18, 12:25 AM
    what is the daily standing charge ? should be something like XXp per day

    What do you mean both were "day readings no issue with the night reading."

    Was it an Economy 7 electric only property?

    If so, I want all the readings, day and night.....
    Last edited by CashStrapped; 15-02-2018 at 12:30 AM.
    • robsters
    • By robsters 15th Feb 18, 12:32 AM
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    robsters
    • #5
    • 15th Feb 18, 12:32 AM
    • #5
    • 15th Feb 18, 12:32 AM
    night reading isnt what made bill so high only the day readings caused it .

    Standing charge
    30 Days at 18.950p £5.68
    Unit rate
    Day 5604.0 kWh at 14.178p £794.54
    Night 153.0 kWh at 7.695p £11.77
    £811.99
    £40.60

    what bill says but was £11 credit and last bill payment i made of £64 knocked it down to final £777 they now want

    Meter Serial Number H14C12644
    Day
    Previous read 31 Dec 2017 03828.0 E
    Customer read 30 Jan 2018 09432.0 C
    Units used 5604.0
    Night
    Previous read 31 Dec 2017 02967.0 E
    Customer read 30 Jan 2018 03120.0 C
    Units used 153.0
    Total usage 5757.0 kWh
    • CashStrapped
    • By CashStrapped 15th Feb 18, 12:43 AM
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    CashStrapped
    • #6
    • 15th Feb 18, 12:43 AM
    • #6
    • 15th Feb 18, 12:43 AM
    Ok for a start - the opening readings are an estimate! That is what the E stands for.

    So, because you did not give them a reading when you moved in, they have guessed one based on typical use. It may be a good guess, it may not be. There is no way to prove it.

    If the previous tenant did not give meter readings then some, or a lot of that use could have been the previous tenants,and there is nothing you can do do confirm that. It is not their error.

    The next question is important!

    Is the property heated by storage heaters? Storage heaters only come on at night, and charge up. They then release the heat during the day. They normally have two dials on them saying input and output.

    Did you have these type of heaters?
    Last edited by CashStrapped; 15-02-2018 at 12:47 AM.
    • robsters
    • By robsters 15th Feb 18, 12:47 AM
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    robsters
    • #7
    • 15th Feb 18, 12:47 AM
    • #7
    • 15th Feb 18, 12:47 AM
    hello

    yeah property did have storage heaters with those dials! and yeah did estimate it but I DID GIVE . metre reading of when i moved in!! it was 02333 on march 29th 2017 so dunno why esitmated it from that number in december :/
    • CashStrapped
    • By CashStrapped 15th Feb 18, 12:58 AM
    • 1,115 Posts
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    CashStrapped
    • #8
    • 15th Feb 18, 12:58 AM
    • #8
    • 15th Feb 18, 12:58 AM
    was march when you actually moved in? If so, you need to tell them that!

    ---

    Now, here is the key part!

    Because you have storage heaters. It is a given that these normally charge on the night rate only, not the day rate!

    Since heating and hot water with a storage heater set-up make up the majority of the energy use, and they are only used at night, it is usually a given that these make up the majority of the energy use on the night rate!

    So at first glance, it looks like they have the day and night rate the wrong way round!

    So this would mean the bill is now £431 rather than £794! Then a further £21 for the day rate.

    The odd thing is, your day rate is super super low. Did you not use much electricity in the day?

    When did you actually move into the property?

    What was both the day and night readings you gave in march?
    Last edited by CashStrapped; 15-02-2018 at 1:03 AM.
    • robsters
    • By robsters 15th Feb 18, 1:04 AM
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    robsters
    • #9
    • 15th Feb 18, 1:04 AM
    • #9
    • 15th Feb 18, 1:04 AM
    i have told them and they know i moved in march with the reading i gave them but they seem so stupid and never listen to anything i say over the phone. what is the day and night reading? before reading had a 1 or a 2, they told me 1 was day reading and 2 is night reading is that right? from what your saying its other way around.

    in march it was 1 . 02333 then 2 (night?/) 01603
    • CashStrapped
    • By CashStrapped 15th Feb 18, 1:09 AM
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    • 607 Thanks
    CashStrapped
    If you have storage heaters......and an Economy 7 (duel rate) tariff, the majority of use is usually on the night rate.

    Something is odd still. Are you sure you were looking at the correct meter?

    That 01603 does not makes sense compared to the meter readings you listed above....are you sure it was 01603?

    You need to check the meter serial number on the bill corresponds to the meter you took readings from.

    ----Edit:

    Let's look at both sets of numbers.

    Firstly I am assuming that they have got the night/day rate the wrong way round.

    If we take the estimated readings from 31/1217 to the confirmed reading of 30/01/18

    Day readings (3120-2967) gives a total use for that period of 153kwh

    Night Readings (9432-3120) gives a total use for that period of 5757kwh

    In total (combined) that makes an 11 month use of 5910kwh. I would consider this low to normal use for a 1 bed flat.

    It has a bizarre night/day use % split of 97% night use. Which sounds very wrong.

    To check this, if we divide the night use 5757kwh by 335 days (11 months) we get an average of about 17kwh night use, per night. This is about right for two storage heaters.

    What is not normal is your day use. 153kwh divided by 335 days gives us 0.45kwh per day. Hardly enough to run a fridge.

    This aside......

    The cost for this use is about £452 + the standing charge (335 x £0.1895) = £63

    Total using their figures = £515

    ------------------

    Interestingly, if we use the figures you supplied

    Confirmed readings 29/03/18 - 30/01/18

    Day reading (3120 - 1603) gives a total of 1517kwh

    Night reading (9432 - 2333) gives a total of 7099kwh

    That gives a total use for the period of 8616kwh

    This is still in the normal (maybe a tad high) use for a one bed.

    Average use per night: 7099 divided by 305 (10 months) = 23kwh per nigh

    Normal range of night use for storage heaters and hot water.

    Average use per day: 1517 divided by 305 (10 months) = 4.9kwh

    Normal to low day use!

    The Cost: Night 7099kwh x (£0.07695) = £546

    Day 1517kwh x (£0.14178) = £215

    Standing charge305 (days) x £0.1895 (standing charge) = £57.79

    Total using your figures = £818

    ------------

    So, assuming they got the night and day mixed up. Which I am pretty sure they have. I would take their figures, pay what you owe and run.

    I have a feeling what you actually owe, using your own figures, is a lot more!
    Last edited by CashStrapped; 15-02-2018 at 3:23 PM.
    • Robin9
    • By Robin9 15th Feb 18, 4:56 AM
    • 2,230 Posts
    • 1,426 Thanks
    Robin9
    Have you the monthly meter readings that you gave online during the period April 17 to Jan 18 please ?

    I think you have misread the 09432. Did you by any chance take a photo of your leaving readings ?


    PS I'm trying to untangle one my own misreadings with Flow at the moment. I misread a Liberty meter by 1000 units (too high) = sent off photos and will send a new reading as well ready for the next statement. Flow's updating (or lack of it) of meter readings doesn't help but I've got a spreadsheet gong back for several years and several suppliers so picking up the error was easy - just annoyed with myself
    Last edited by Robin9; 15-02-2018 at 5:21 AM. Reason: PS added
    Never pay on an estimated bill
    • CashStrapped
    • By CashStrapped 15th Feb 18, 1:43 PM
    • 1,115 Posts
    • 607 Thanks
    CashStrapped
    @robin9

    I think you have got the wrong end of the stick.

    09432 is the estimated opening reading flow are insisting they use for the bill.

    He gave flow confirmed meter readings in april, when he moved in (see post 9). They seemingly have ignored them. This usually means the energy company do not think they are correct readings.

    The whole point of my post and calculations was to show:

    1) It seems that they have night/day the wrong way round

    2) If you calculate the cost using flow's calculations (with estimated opening readings)......the bill is actually a lot cheaper than using the meter readings he supplied when he moved in during april.

    So, if flow insist that he should be billed using the estimated readings, he should let them. He actually tried to supply the correct readings and they ignored them!

    If you look at the calculations using the customers actual readings, they make a lot more sense and are a better fit for the type of property and use one would expect. I think that these are the readings flow should be using. But don't tell them that!

    So his solution is to convince them that the night/day is the wrong way round, which seems very plausible. Pay the bill they have calculated.....and hope they do not notice their error, as he seems to have been undercharged.

    However, the OP may want to keep some money aside for a while, just in case flow realise their error and produce a corrected bill, which they would be entitled to do.
    Last edited by CashStrapped; 15-02-2018 at 2:04 PM.
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