DVLA fine from ANPR camera - wasn't me, cloned plates. Please help

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  • littlerock
    littlerock Posts: 1,774 Forumite
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    edited 10 July 2017 at 11:45PM
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    Hang on, if the car is fixed and back on the road, and registered in someone's name, how did they do that when the official owner had scrapped it? Whose name and address is it registered in?

    The original owner has been fined for having it on the road without insurance. How could this happen if someone else has it registered in their name?
  • Geoff1963
    Geoff1963 Posts: 1,088 Forumite
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    How about this scenario :
    1) Villain A clones the OPs car, puts a copy of its number plates on a car of the same model and colour. They drive round with no tax / MOT / insurance.
    2) The OP takes their car off the road, stops paying insurance. Villain A doesn't know this, so gets flashed by the DVLA. Q. As Car 54 says : Why doesn't the OP get the summons ?
    3) OP scraps the car, but Villain B intercepts it, and re-registers it. They have in the meantime stolen ( or claimed insurance for the theft of ) a car which is similar ; and is now a "ringer". A very dodgy MOT station ignores the VIN, or is persuaded to pass the OP's scrap.
    Note that there is no need for the two Villains and cars to be the same. There could now be 2 of them.

    Either way, the car should be of interest to the police. Either it still has no insurance ; or someone has bought the ringer off Villain B, in which case the DVLA should have an address for the new keeper. If DVLA are relying on ANPR, no-one will pull over Villain B ( or his unsuspecting customer ).
  • AdrianC
    AdrianC Posts: 42,189 Forumite
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    Geoff1963 wrote: »
    How about this scenario :
    1) Villain A clones the OPs car, puts a copy of its number plates on a car of the same model and colour. They drive round with no tax / MOT / insurance.
    2) The OP takes their car off the road, stops paying insurance. Villain A doesn't know this, so gets flashed by the DVLA. Q. As Car 54 says : Why doesn't the OP get the summons ?
    3) OP scraps the car, but Villain B intercepts it, and re-registers it. They have in the meantime stolen ( or claimed insurance for the theft of ) a car which is similar ; and is now a "ringer". A very dodgy MOT station ignores the VIN, or is persuaded to pass the OP's scrap.
    Note that there is no need for the two Villains and cars to be the same. There could now be 2 of them.

    Either way, the car should be of interest to the police. Either it still has no insurance ; or someone has bought the ringer off Villain B, in which case the DVLA should have an address for the new keeper. If DVLA are relying on ANPR, no-one will pull over Villain B ( or his unsuspecting customer ).

    Occam's Razor applies, as ever.

    C. The car wasn't scrapped, but was repaired and put back on the road.
    littlerock wrote: »
    Hang on, if the car is fixed and back on the road, and registered in someone's name, how did they do that when the official owner had scrapped it? Whose name and address is it registered in?

    The ex-owner, the OP, transferred the V5C into the name of the buyer, who he believed was going to scrap it. They didn't.
  • peter_the_piper
    peter_the_piper Posts: 30,268 Forumite
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    The problem was(sadly) partly of the OP's own making in that he did not follow up the DVLA in May 2016 when it was supposed to have been scrapped. Had he sent in the forms to DVLA all this stress could have been avoided.
    I'd rather be an Optimist and be proved wrong than a Pessimist and be proved right.
  • AdrianC
    AdrianC Posts: 42,189 Forumite
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    peter_the_piper wrote: »
    The problem was(sadly) partly of the OP's own making in that he did not follow up the DVLA in May 2016 when it was supposed to have been scrapped. Had he sent in the forms to DVLA all this stress could have been avoided.
    For all we know, the car is no longer in the OP's name - it may well have been transferred to the people who collected it at the time. The penalty in question dates back to when the car was in his possession.
  • AndyMc.....
    AndyMc..... Posts: 3,248 Forumite
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    AdrianC wrote: »
    For all we know, the car is no longer in the OP's name - it may well have been transferred to the people who collected it at the time. The penalty in question dates back to when the car was in his possession.

    So the question is, who was driving when it was photographed?
  • littlerock
    littlerock Posts: 1,774 Forumite
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    edited 11 July 2017 at 9:28AM
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    So AdrianC, are you suggesting the fine for no insurance refers to the period when OP still owned the car and was driving it (it was caught on a roadside camera), before he scrapped it? And it was uninsured at that time. Can OP confirm what dates the fine relates to?
  • AdrianC
    AdrianC Posts: 42,189 Forumite
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    littlerock wrote: »
    So you are suggesting the fine for no insurance refers to the period when OP still owned the car and was driving it, before he scrapped it? And it was uninsured at that time. Can OP confirm what dates the fine relates to?

    He says as much in the OP...
    waggers1979 wrote: »
    It was for driving with no insurance on an old car that I owned back in April 2016. I had bought a new car in Jan that year, the vehicle that was photographed driving was parked on a private car park at the time and unable to be driven as the battery was flat and it had 2 flat tyres. I was waiting for it to be taken and scrapped (which it was later that month).
  • littlerock
    littlerock Posts: 1,774 Forumite
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    edited 11 July 2017 at 10:37AM
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    At the time of the fine, April 2016, the OP still owned the car but he believed he had parked in a safe location in an undriveable state? So how does that work? Someone made it road worthy and drove it around? If it was snapped on a road side camera there should be a photo so it should be clear it was his car being driven. As another poster says, who was the driver in the photo.

    Meanwhile in his original post, OP says that it is on the road - so assume it is the same car - and taxed according to DVLC website. Has he looked up the make and model which is taxed with the registration number. The look up asks you to confirm this? So the DVLC still has the original car registered and taxed in his name and address ie never scrapped it? Or is it another car?
  • Rover_Driver
    Rover_Driver Posts: 1,508 Forumite
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    waggers1979 wrote: »
    Apparently it was a roadside unmanned ANPR camera and the fine was issued for no insurance. I never received any documentation from the DVLA for it. It has been to Chester Magistrates Court without my knowledge and a conviction placed against me for no insurance.

    Have you checked with the court the what the date of the offence was and what the actual offence was.
    If you received the acknowledgement letter from the DVLA that you were no longer the keeper, the offence may have been committed before the date of the letter.
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