MSE News:MSE investigation reveals John Lewis IS 'knowingly undersold'

gwapenut · 17 May 2017 at 1:40PM

@topsoil
I accept that John Lewis often offer far more bundled services than you may get with other retailers, and will often pricematch despite their overall offering being superior.

However, does this give them the right to claim not to be knowingly undersold and then leave their product price unchanged for products where they offer no extra tangible benefits, and where the sale price is not a loss leader?

POPPYOSCAR · 17 May 2017 at 2:05PM

Some posters seem to be missing the point completely.

It is not about JL and price matching for individual customers, it is about them stating if they actively seek out lower prices and if they know about a lower price they will lower their price as a matter of course.

Clearly this is not happening.

They should not make claims that they do something when they do not actually do it!.

dastep · 17 May 2017 at 2:10PM

Isn't this accusation rather rich coming from Martin Lewis who originally created and advertised his website as though he was doing it to 'fight for the common man'?

People flocked to his website because they were deceived into thinking that Martin was a guy who was on the side of the poor and cared about those who struggled with their mortgages, finances, groceries, etc.

Then he revealed exactly his colours when he sold his website to the very people he claimed to be fighting against.

You can fool some of the people some of the time......

Doc_N · 17 May 2017 at 2:50PM

dastep wrote: »

Isn't this accusation rather rich coming from Martin Lewis who originally created and advertised his website as though he was doing it to 'fight for the common man'?

People flocked to his website because they were deceived into thinking that Martin was a guy who was on the side of the poor and cared about those who struggled with their mortgages, finances, groceries, etc.

Then he revealed exactly his colours when he sold his website to the very people he claimed to be fighting against.

You can fool some of the people some of the time......

And yet despite its open support for the Nazis in the 1930s people still buy the Daily Mail. Things move on. This is a fair and accurate report, whoever owns MSE.

What surprises me is the diehard support for John Lewis from some of its customers, despite the fact that it's using a lie as its main advertising slogan. It's dishonest, and it doesn't reflect well on John Lewis. But then neither does deciding that some staff aren't partners after all, when it suits them, paying under the legal minimum wage, or falling foul of the Advertising Standards Authority.

oldwiring · 17 May 2017 at 3:04PM

I haven't got time to read the whole thread, so I apologise should my comment be covered already. TBH, if a business states it will meet a price, it means that, if asked, it will sell to the potential buyer at a competitor's price. I think MSE and its master do protest too much.

That said, in other matters of late that I have had with JLP, it is clear they are becoming more commercial and inflexible unless put under pressure.

POPPYOSCAR · 17 May 2017 at 3:05PM

Doc_N wrote: »

And yet despite its open support for the Nazis in the 1930s people still buy the Daily Mail. Things move on. This is a fair and accurate report, whoever owns MSE.

What surprises me is the diehard support for John Lewis from some of its customers, despite the fact that it's using a lie as its main advertising slogan. It's dishonest, and it doesn't reflect well on John Lewis. But then neither does deciding that some staff aren't partners after all, when it suits them, paying under the legal minimum wage, or falling foul of the Advertising Standards Authority.

Yes it is odd.

In my experience whenever there has been a problem JL make excuses rather than holding their hands up and admitting to making a mistake.

topsoil · 17 May 2017 at 3:34PM

I think the confusion caused by MSE and others is that 'Never Knowingly Undersold' is a slogan. It isn't a definitive part of the 'invitation to treat' that this report suggests.

JL confirm that the slogan has a ‘meaning’ i.e. it is a pointer to the type of contract and experience customers will enjoy, including ‘service’ and effectively a price promise - there’s a definitive explanation on their website. Beyond JL:

‘Guinness is Good For You’ Non-alcoholic versions only?
‘Every Little Helps’.. Said the Old Lady as She Piddled in the Ocean’?
‘A Mars a Day’ 2 out 3 ain’t bad?
‘I’m Lovin’ It’ Not if you suffer from GERD?
‘For mash get Smash’ Want cheese but get chalk?

Surely, we don’t take slogans literally, do we, because they all - including JL’s - fall apart under such scrutiny…

What is more worrying is reports of poor customer service, although that’s not part of the MSE report.

MSE_Martin · 17 May 2017 at 3:41PM

Dastep writes,"Isn't this accusation rather rich coming from Martin Lewis who originally created and advertised his website as though he was doing it to 'fight for the common man'?

People flocked to his website because they were deceived into thinking that Martin was a guy who was on the side of the poor and cared about those who struggled with their mortgages, finances, groceries, etc.

Then he revealed exactly his colours when he sold his website to the very people he claimed to be fighting against.

You can fool some of the people some of the time......"

What utter tosh you speak. This site has always, and still does aim to "cut your bills and fight for financial justice." The fact it changed ownership hasn't changed that. Nor is the site owned by 'those he fought against' its owned by a group that also has comparison sites - not a product provider.

Furthermore as an unnegotiable part of this sale I ensured this site is governed by a legally binding editorial code which means it will always put the consumer interest ahead of its own financial concerns and is free to comment on anything (including the comparison sites in the same group). Its editorial independence and freedom is still paramount.

The journalism in article is pure fact based data journalism. If you have accusations to make about how this site now doesn't help consumers then do it with facts - not unfounded slurs - if you are right on any I will do my best to put things right.

And if you don't like the style of the site, the man who founded it, or the work of the brilliant team of now 100 people who make a huge social impact on the pockets of the nation. My I suggest you simply don't use it and trot off!

gwapenut · 17 May 2017 at 3:48PM

@topsoil
You're confusing slogans with JL putting forward a bold claim and advertising a fact and business ethic which is simply not true. And it's not just a slogan - they elaborate with text on their website outlining what they claim to do when they find lower prices. They do not do what they claim to do.

Of all the slogans you posted, only 2 have relevance, and 1 of those was also eventually squashed by advertising standards.

‘Guinness is Good For You’ Non-alcoholic versions only?
That also fell foul of advertising standards and was subsequently changed to a more tongue in cheek "help the poor guinnless".

‘A Mars a Day’ 2 out 3 ain’t bad?
Perhaps borderline, but not making any specific medical claims!

I've another one - ASDA - "permanently low prices". They were told to stop using this phrase when some of those "permanent " reductions were reverted.

So - there IS precedent.

quoia · 17 May 2017 at 3:51PM

MSE_Martin wrote: »

Dastep writes,"Isn't this accusation rather rich coming from Martin Lewis who originally created and advertised his website as though he was doing it to 'fight for the common man'?

People flocked to his website because they were deceived into thinking that Martin was a guy who was on the side of the poor and cared about those who struggled with their mortgages, finances, groceries, etc.

Then he revealed exactly his colours when he sold his website to the very people he claimed to be fighting against.

You can fool some of the people some of the time......"

What utter tosh you speak. This site has always, and still does aim to "cut your bills and fight for financial justice." The fact it changed ownership hasn't changed that. Nor is the site owned by 'those he fought against' its owned by a group that also has comparison sites - not a product provider.

Furthermore as an unnegotiable part of this sale I ensured this site is governed by a legally binding editorial code which means it will always put the consumer interest ahead of its own financial concerns and is free to comment on anything (including the comparison sites in the same group). Its editorial independence and freedom is still paramount.

The journalism in article is pure fact based data journalism. If you have accusations to make about how this site now doesn't help consumers then do it with facts - not unfounded sluts - if you are right on any I will do my best to put things right.

And if you don't like the style of the site, the man who founded it, or the work of the brilliant team of now 100 people who make a huge social impact on the pockets of the nation. My I suggest you simply don't use it and trot off!

Hi Martin

Typo I presume

MSE News:MSE investigation reveals John Lewis IS 'knowingly undersold'

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