Bulk LPG - Cheapest suppliers / supply route?

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  • LittleVermin
    LittleVermin Posts: 737
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    edited 3 January 2011 at 11:44PM
    from Competition Commission press release of 29 June 2006:

    (http://www.competition-commission.org.uk/press_rel/2006/june/pdf/35-06.pdf)

    (d) [FONT=Arial,Arial][FONT=Arial,Arial]better provision of information on suppliers and their offers. [/FONT][/FONT]
    [FONT=Arial,Arial][FONT=Arial,Arial](i) ......[/FONT][/FONT]
    [FONT=Arial,Arial][FONT=Arial,Arial](ii) ..... [/FONT]
    [FONT=Arial,Arial](iii) suppliers to provide customers with quotes (subject to site visit) over the telephone and/or via their websites without previously visiting the site; [/FONT]

    [/FONT]
    so it is and/or not and as in the statement by the Secretary of Energy & Climate Change - not that Chris Huhne personally made the mistake (http://www.parliament.uk/briefingpapers/commons/lib/research/briefings/snsc-05806.pdf )
  • HateLPG
    HateLPG Posts: 464
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    from Competition Commission press release of 29 June 2006:
    !
    (http://www.competition-commission.org.uk/press_rel/2006/june/pdf/35-06.pdf)
    !
    (d) [FONT=Arial,Arial][FONT=Arial,Arial]better provision of information on suppliers and their offers. [/FONT][/FONT]
    [FONT=Arial,Arial][FONT=Arial,Arial](i) ......[/FONT][/FONT]
    [FONT=Arial,Arial][FONT=Arial,Arial](ii) ..... [/FONT]
    [FONT=Arial,Arial](iii) suppliers to provide customers with quotes (subject to site visit) over the telephone and/or via their websites without previously visiting the site; [/FONT]
    !
    [/FONT]
    so it is and/or not and as in the statement by the Secretary of Energy & Climate Change - not that Chris Huhne personally made the mistake (http://www.parliament.uk/briefingpapers/commons/lib/research/briefings/snsc-05806.pdf )

    And, on consideration, sadly not very helpful, I fear - possibly even (once again) resulting in quite the opposite from what the CC intended.!

    Prior to this requirement, although a company may not have been prepared to quote without a site visit, that visit would have given the opportunity for the supplier to fully asses the supply situation and therefore offer a realistic price based on all factors and would also have given the user the opportunity to negotiate with the salesman and play one supplier off against another. Now, the supplier can (and will) simply say "That's the price - take it or leave it", but you can be pretty certain that price will be a worst-case price for a customer living 100 miles from the depot and using just 1000 litres per year. And on top of that, the companies no longer have the overhead of undertaking site visits!

    This makes me even more convinced that the CC ruling needs reviewing. As I have said before, it is my belief that for true transparency, the price needs to be clearly broken down and quoted in two parts: A GAS price, possibly banded, based on usage and a DELIVERY charge, banded by distance from nearest depot. As our beloved meerkats might say: Simples ;-)
  • HateLPG
    HateLPG Posts: 464
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    Just found this - prices now slightly out of date, but WELL worth a read :)

    http://www.lpggassuppliers.co.uk/
  • SD-253
    SD-253 Posts: 314 Forumite
    frankie wrote: »
    Well, I for one do not have a say of when my tank can be topped up. Calor will not look at ordering new gas until tank levels are at/or below 20% (officially). However, speaking to my account manager just before December, she said to reorder at 30% (crystal ball!)

    You can of course give a false reading but in my opinion that would be selfish, bit like panic buying up all the bread on the shelf, and sod anybody else.

    I used to be on the telemetry system but removed it as I considered at the time (when it was first introduced, £50 or so bribe) Calor was using it to 'top up' just as prices increased so filling with pricier gas. I did contact them when this happened one January and they let me have the top up of about 400 lts at the old price. At that time I was considering running the tank to empty for the summer to look at alternative ways of heating.

    So, in essence, it is no good 'advising' bulk tank users to keep topped up when there is little choice in the matter for the majority of us. Certainly you have to reorder at recommended levels though.

    Not sure about why people are having diffculty with refilling early? I was on flowgas and are now on energas I am nearly certain that flogas normally had a rule of they will fill when you use 400 litres. That was definatly what Energas told me.
  • bobhawke
    bobhawke Posts: 359 Forumite
    Not sure about why people are having diffculty with refilling early? I was on flowgas and are now on energas I am nearly certain that flogas normally had a rule of they will fill when you use 400 litres. That was definatly what Energas told me.
    Because winter came early and it was a lot worse than expected? Because fuel companies deliberately delay deliveries near winter so they can push up the prices and make more money?
  • SD-253
    SD-253 Posts: 314 Forumite
    edited 9 January 2011 at 11:50AM
    bobhawke wrote: »
    Because winter came early and it was a lot worse than expected? Because fuel companies deliberately delay deliveries near winter so they can push up the prices and make more money?

    Rubbish I have seen minimal increase in the prices of Gas compared to oil. A friend says he was quoted 92ppl for oil for 48 hour delivery. I do not believe for 1 minute that gas companies deliberate delay deliveries. You are one of those people who see conspiracy everywhere. You have contradicted yourself, when you said that winter came early (unless you think the LPG companies are better at weather forecasting than metrological office). As stated get it filled before the winter IE November. See if you can fill at 400 liters and ask for a passing delivery. My apologies to anyone who just can’t afford to keep the tank topped up. Can I suggest to them to start a savings account. One they have not got easy access to (making it difficult to use for a spur of the moment purchases). Again get a grip bobhawke your company if it has to raised prices it is more likely to do with wholesale prices going up and it will be considerably lower rise than oil price rises which is clearly profiteering on people who have not topped up.
  • HateLPG
    HateLPG Posts: 464
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    Probably of interest to all, but most certainly of interest to:
  • Wow ! So that's where my 68ppl went on Flogas. Their profit in relation to turnover figures tell its own story. :eek:

    Calor's seems more even..................

    Nice call there, thanks.
  • LittleVermin
    LittleVermin Posts: 737
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    edited 7 January 2011 at 2:31AM
    GrandadRob wrote: »

    Flogas. Their profit in relation to turnover figures tell its own story.

    Calor's seems more even..................

    Rob,

    Flogas's profit is about 6% of turnover (£9M on £153M). Calor's rather more - just over 10% (£36M on £389M). Anything less than 6% is rather meagre, isn't it? (or else the result of clever accountancy practices).

    But both companies pay their top man (I presume he's male) rather more than the prime minister.

    Flogas's top salary is £473,000 (up 98% in 7 years).

    Calor's a miserly £400,000 (up 112% in 7 years).

    I think we ought to support a moneyfesto to get the Calor's top man's pay up to Flogas's. End this discrimination NOW! The sheer quality of Calor's concern about honouring contracts is at least on a par with Flogas's excellent customer relations.


    psst - has your pay gone up 112% - or a more reasonable 98% - in the last 7 years?
  • bobhawke
    bobhawke Posts: 359 Forumite
    Rubbish I have seen minimal increase in the prices of Gas compared to oil. A friend says he was quoted 92ppl for 48 hour delivery. I do not believe for 1 minute that gas companies deliberate delay deliveries. You are one of those people who see conspiracy everywhere. You have contradicted yourself, when you said that winter came early (unless you think the LPG companies are better at weather forecasting than metrological office). As stated get it filled before the winter IE November. See if you can fill at 400 liters and ask for a passing delivery. My apologies to anyone who just can’t afford to keep the tank topped up. Can I suggest to them to start a savings account. One they have not got easy access to (making it difficult to use for a spur of the moment purchases). Again get a grip bobhawke your company if it has to raised prices it is more likely to do with wholesale prices going up and it will be considerably lower rise than oil price rises which is clearly profiteering on people who have not topped up.

    I didn't contradict myself, I offered a couple of reasons why people were having trouble filling early.

    Winter came in November and it was the worst for years: http://news.stv.tv/scotland/212375-scotland-hit-by-worst-november-snow-in-17-years/
    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/topics/weather/6943186/Worst-Scottish-winter-since-1963-says-Alex-Salmond.html
    You couldn't drive in the middle of Edinburgh let alone in the countryside. The M8 (main road in scotland) was shut for a week, when it finally opened it was down to 20 miles an hour because of black ice. Alex Salmond was in parliament this week saying Scotland is prepared for any weather, meanwhile there was a 10ish car pile up on the M8 which shut it for 5 hours and a 5ish car pile up on the M9 which shut that, because of black ice.

    If you take small quantities you get charged more. If you are on top up you get charged more.
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