Charging Order? The myth

eggbox · 5 September 2014 at 3:23PM

Hi LRR

There seems to be a problem with that page too? It directs me to a "Get Satisfaction" log in page which I can log in with Google.

It tells me I am logged in then shoots straight back to the log in page??

Land_Registry · 5 September 2014 at 3:40PM

Hello eggbox

Sorry about the failure of the last link. Please see this one which should provide you with further information

http://support.landregistry.gov.uk/landregistry/topics/are-you-unable-to-locate-emails-youre-expecting-from-land-registry

eggbox · 5 September 2014 at 3:54PM

Sorted!

Spam, spam, spam , spam!

eggbox · 5 September 2014 at 4:05PM

Hi LRR

The only details from the mortgage lender registered on the deeds are the following (I've starred dates);

4 (06.07.19**) REGISTERED CHARGE dated 22 June 19** to secure the moneys
including the further advances therein mentioned.
5 (06.07.19**) Proprietor: LLOYDS BANK PLC (Co. Regn. No. 2065) of Dept.
No. *** Birmingham Regional Securities Centre, P.O. Box 70, 123
Colmore Row, Birmingham B3 3AE.
6 (21.01.19**) REGISTERED CHARGE dated 16 January 1997 to secure the
moneys including the further advances therein mentioned.
7 (21.01.1997) Proprietor: LLOYDS BANK PLC (Co. Regn. No. ****) of
Registrations, Secured Assets, Barnett Way, Gloucester GL4 3RL.

There, to me, appears to be nothing to prevent them from registering a legal charge with the LR as far as the mortgage holder is concerned as there is no Restriction placed preventing one being registered?

They have also let me know that they had a second mortgage (from a different lender) registered a few years back (which is now paid off) and no permission was ever required for that?

forkinhardground · 8 September 2014 at 12:33AM

Sorry to just barge in on this thread but I need some quick advice before i read the thread in its entirety as I'm in court this Thursday for a forced sale hearing of my property.

Basically, I was taken to court about 4 years ago for non payment of a credit card debt by one of the larger credit card companies, the sum was for around 9.5K I offered to pay a monthly instalment and explained to the court that the property was jointly owned through a joint mortgage by my partner and myself and so felt a charging order would not be appropriate.

The court accepted my offer of payment and so that was fine and I made the payments until I lost my job, I explained my circumstances to the solicitors for the credit card company but they continued to hound me by telephone for payments. I then fell into a deep depression and was under my doctor and receiving medication for this and at the same time my relationship broke down with my partner and I moved out of the property. This was 3 years ago.

I have now discovered that the debt was sold on to another company and there is a hearing this week for a force sale of the property.

Now my ex partner has mental health issues and comes under the mental health act, she is co owner of the property and the mortgage is in joint names but on the land registry only my name is present and not hers but the solicitor acting for the credit card company is also acting for the company that bought the debt so would of known of the disclosure of the property being jointly owned even though their ignoring that and going ahead with a forced sale in the county court.

Can they go ahead and do this?

Have I a defence or able to stop this going ahead?
As this would seriously have an impact on my ex-partner and I fear she may take her own life. she lives in the property still with my adult son!

It was always my intention to start payments again as soon as I could afford to by the way and i only found out last Friday about the court case as I hadn't been to the address for a couple of months so I have missed the 7 day deadline of responding by letter to the court.

eggbox · 8 September 2014 at 7:00AM

Hi forkinhardground, firstly remember that an Order for Sale application only means a creditor is trying to get the court to order the sale it doesn't mean you will definitely have to sell. OFS are extremely rare to the extent I can't find anyone else on the net who has had an Order for Sale made against them for a consumer credit debt? But to try and help you can I ask a few questions, please?

1. Why is your ex-partners details not on the Land Registry if she is on the mortgage?
2. Who is the creditor/debt collector taking the action ?
3. Was a CO granted when the court previously accepted your offer of payments?
4. Roughly, how much equity is in the property?

Judges have discretion over whether to grant an Order for Sale but there is, unfortunately, far more protection on jointly owned property than solely owned (which the court may have to accept it is if only your name is on the title deeds?). So that issue needs to be explained fully in court.

It's still unthinkable, to me, that a Judge would grant an OFS on a family home (especially given your circumstances) so it's most likely a last resort from these leaches trying to extract a repayment from you as you may have been, perhaps, ignoring them? But if you can post up a few more details it will help point you in the right direction.

forkinhardground · 8 September 2014 at 8:38AM

Hi eggbox, thank you for your prompt reply.

1. The reason I think her name isn't on the land register I think is because I used to solely own the property. Although we lived together only my name was on the origninal mortgage until I changed mortgage providers and then we had a joint mortgage.
2. The creditor is M E III Ltd they bought the debt off MBNA.
3. I'm not sure tbh the judge never made it clear, I offered to pay £70 per month and that was accepted although the judge did seem to be more MBNA side than being impartial. Kept banging on about how long that would take to pay back the debt.
4. There's around 111,000 equity.

We did see a solicitor on one of those free half hour things on Saturday morning and he said it's clear to see she is on the mortgage and has an equitable share in the property and so the land registery issue isn't a problem... But then his outlook wasn't positive at all as regards to the sale of the property. He seemed to think they could force the sale, but when I read this post and another I thought is he just saying that to try and extract money from me as he's preparing a case today for me to present in court!

eggbox · 8 September 2014 at 9:28AM

I'm not an expert on this, but I'm not sure your ex being indebted to the mortgage company automatically makes you her a "legal" joint owner of the property. (if Land Registry Representative is looking in on this thread he may be able to give a view from how the Land Registry would view your particular circumstance from a legal ownership perspective) Also, do you have a Restriction on your deeds notifying the the CO order or a Registered Charge?

ME III (Marlin) are one of a particulary vile bunch of bottom feeding debt collection companies beginning to go down this route. But are doing so as they have nothing else to hit you with. So you have to go to court armed with everything you have to stamp this atrocious behaviour out. These include making sure you get ready for court,

1. A Doctors note confirming your ex partners medical condition and likely outcome if a sale is granted.
2. Case Law (which is on this thread) that give protections to primary and family residencies
3. Maing sure your Solicitor argues on the grounds of any sale being
"disproportionate" as ME III opitionally purchased this debt for around 10% (and probably less) of the debt amount. Make sure they have to reveal in court how much they purchased the debt for.

Whilst you will need a Solicitor to represent you on this DON'T assume they are clued up on the subject as many haven't a clue on this area of law. Court stats reflect that less than half a percent of CO's obtained ever progress to the OFS stage (and that is progress not granted.) So your situation is extremely rare but, I think, is probably happening as you are classed as a sole owner of the property? So check that out first.

Land_Registry · 8 September 2014 at 9:28AM

eggbox wrote: »

Hi LRR

The only details from the mortgage lender registered on the deeds are the following (I've starred dates);

4 (06.07.19**) REGISTERED CHARGE dated 22 June 19** to secure the moneys
including the further advances therein mentioned.
5 (06.07.19**) Proprietor: LLOYDS BANK PLC (Co. Regn. No. 2065) of Dept.
No. *** Birmingham Regional Securities Centre, P.O. Box 70, 123
Colmore Row, Birmingham B3 3AE.
6 (21.01.19**) REGISTERED CHARGE dated 16 January 1997 to secure the
moneys including the further advances therein mentioned.
7 (21.01.1997) Proprietor: LLOYDS BANK PLC (Co. Regn. No. ****) of
Registrations, Secured Assets, Barnett Way, Gloucester GL4 3RL.

There, to me, appears to be nothing to prevent them from registering a legal charge with the LR as far as the mortgage holder is concerned as there is no Restriction placed preventing one being registered?

They have also let me know that they had a second mortgage (from a different lender) registered a few years back (which is now paid off) and no permission was ever required for that?

eggbox - these are simply the charge entries so any restrictions would be in the B Proprietorship Register. If there are none then as far as registration is concerned then the consent of the lenders would not be required.

Nowadays it is rare for the major lenders not to require a consent restriction to be registered but some of the old charge forms may still contain clauses which require the borrower to contact them etc

Land_Registry · 8 September 2014 at 9:33AM

eggbox wrote: »

I'm not an expert on this, but I'm not sure your ex being indebted to the mortgage company automatically makes you her a "legal" joint owner of the property. (if Land Registry Representative is looking in on this thread he may be able to give a view from how the Land Registry would view your particular circumstance from a legal ownership perspective) Also, do you have a Restriction on your deeds notifying the the CO order or a Registered Charge?

The legal ownership is defined by name(s) on the register - if she is simply a joint mortgagee then she may have a beneficial interest but that is quite separate from the legal ownership. What impact this has on your circumstances though is something to get legal advice on.

If you were the sole owner and then remortgaged with her also included then this is quite possible but what her legal obligations are likely to be confined to the terms of the loan. You can have more borrowers than owners but not the other way round.

Charging Order? The myth

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