Flexible Working Application Denied...HELP
AliceMS88
Posts: 35 Forumite
Hi there,
Looking for a bit of advice, any thoughts are very much appreciated. I've used fake names in my explanation just to make it easier to understand.
I've recently had a baby and return to work date has always been 25th September (just over a week away!). Even before I left on maternity, I mentioned to my manager (Becky) that I would possibly be interested in looking at coming back part time, this was received positively. I then went in for a KIT day (keep in touch) and verbally requested to Becky that I would definitely like to explore the part time option, ideally dropping from 5 days a week to 3 and implementing a job share to cover the role. She was happy with the request and said to leave it to her to look into. I told her to let me know if she needed anything from me in writing (we have a good relationship so it was natural for us to start the process 'informally' with this chat about it.)
Becky then left to have her own baby, we kept in touch via texts where she informed me that my part time request had been handed over to her maternity cover Gary (brand new to the company). She expressed that she couldn't see much of an issue with it and that it just needed organising.
A month later, I contacted Gary to organise a KIT day where he asks me about my plans when I return to work, I state that I had requested part time to Becky to which he replies that I haven't put anything in writing so if I could drop him a quick email to log the request, he could then start to look into it. I emailed over straight away to which he confirmed receipt. A couple of weeks later he emails me to say I need to follow the policy and submit the request formally (I understand that I should have researched this when asking verbally). Weeks later, I then get invited to an initial meeting. Becky contacts me to get an update on the part time so I tell her that I have had to go via the policy.
The initial meeting was extremely quick, less than 10 minutes, where I was told that my application had been denied. I was told the reasons verbally without much detail and that information would be provided in the follow up letter. I am shocked as up to this point, it had been implied that all would be okay. Gary and a senior manager did not listen to any alternatives that I wanted to discuss and that it was a case of full time or nothing.
I receive the letter which has little to no specific information in it as to why it has been denied although they did include 3 reasons from the ACAS guidelines. I believed their reasoning was unjust so appealed the decision. I attend a meeting with the appeals officer and HR and further explain my case. I receive an outcome a week later to say that whilst I had successfully argued a couple of the points, the additional burden of costs still exist. Now they say its for first aid training cost and training costs....which are minimal in my opinion and something that will have to be paid for if I leave. Plus my argument for part time would have actually reduced their costs so I am upset that they have used this point as the sole reason for rejection.
I inform Becky of the decision to which she was furious. She said she would get in touch with the managers but I don't think anything will come out of that as I have reached the end of the process. She believes that the job would be better as a job share.
I now have no choice but to resign as I cannot afford to work full time due to childcare costs. I am absolutely gutted as I have worked for the company for a number of years and was initially headhunted internally for this particular role, if I had stayed in my previous role in the company, part time probably wouldn't have been an issue at all as I worked in a team with other part timers. It is upsetting to have got to this point in my maternity leave, thinking everything was okay to then have it swung in the opposite direction.
I am now not sure what to do about a certain number of things -
I have been looking into involuntary resignations which I believe this is so should I bring a grievance to the company?
I have only a week left now until I am supposed to return to work full time but cannot do so but I have to give 6 weeks notice....will they expect me to work this? Where do I stand on this?
Should I seek advice before resigning....although I know there is really not long left.
I apologise for the essay, I have tried to cover everything so please do ask questions if there is something I have missed or not explained properly.
Please just tell me how it is - I understand that it might just be a case of resign, get a new job and forget about it all but I just feel a bit hard done by at the moment.
Thanks in advance.
Looking for a bit of advice, any thoughts are very much appreciated. I've used fake names in my explanation just to make it easier to understand.
I've recently had a baby and return to work date has always been 25th September (just over a week away!). Even before I left on maternity, I mentioned to my manager (Becky) that I would possibly be interested in looking at coming back part time, this was received positively. I then went in for a KIT day (keep in touch) and verbally requested to Becky that I would definitely like to explore the part time option, ideally dropping from 5 days a week to 3 and implementing a job share to cover the role. She was happy with the request and said to leave it to her to look into. I told her to let me know if she needed anything from me in writing (we have a good relationship so it was natural for us to start the process 'informally' with this chat about it.)
Becky then left to have her own baby, we kept in touch via texts where she informed me that my part time request had been handed over to her maternity cover Gary (brand new to the company). She expressed that she couldn't see much of an issue with it and that it just needed organising.
A month later, I contacted Gary to organise a KIT day where he asks me about my plans when I return to work, I state that I had requested part time to Becky to which he replies that I haven't put anything in writing so if I could drop him a quick email to log the request, he could then start to look into it. I emailed over straight away to which he confirmed receipt. A couple of weeks later he emails me to say I need to follow the policy and submit the request formally (I understand that I should have researched this when asking verbally). Weeks later, I then get invited to an initial meeting. Becky contacts me to get an update on the part time so I tell her that I have had to go via the policy.
The initial meeting was extremely quick, less than 10 minutes, where I was told that my application had been denied. I was told the reasons verbally without much detail and that information would be provided in the follow up letter. I am shocked as up to this point, it had been implied that all would be okay. Gary and a senior manager did not listen to any alternatives that I wanted to discuss and that it was a case of full time or nothing.
I receive the letter which has little to no specific information in it as to why it has been denied although they did include 3 reasons from the ACAS guidelines. I believed their reasoning was unjust so appealed the decision. I attend a meeting with the appeals officer and HR and further explain my case. I receive an outcome a week later to say that whilst I had successfully argued a couple of the points, the additional burden of costs still exist. Now they say its for first aid training cost and training costs....which are minimal in my opinion and something that will have to be paid for if I leave. Plus my argument for part time would have actually reduced their costs so I am upset that they have used this point as the sole reason for rejection.
I inform Becky of the decision to which she was furious. She said she would get in touch with the managers but I don't think anything will come out of that as I have reached the end of the process. She believes that the job would be better as a job share.
I now have no choice but to resign as I cannot afford to work full time due to childcare costs. I am absolutely gutted as I have worked for the company for a number of years and was initially headhunted internally for this particular role, if I had stayed in my previous role in the company, part time probably wouldn't have been an issue at all as I worked in a team with other part timers. It is upsetting to have got to this point in my maternity leave, thinking everything was okay to then have it swung in the opposite direction.
I am now not sure what to do about a certain number of things -
I have been looking into involuntary resignations which I believe this is so should I bring a grievance to the company?
I have only a week left now until I am supposed to return to work full time but cannot do so but I have to give 6 weeks notice....will they expect me to work this? Where do I stand on this?
Should I seek advice before resigning....although I know there is really not long left.
I apologise for the essay, I have tried to cover everything so please do ask questions if there is something I have missed or not explained properly.
Please just tell me how it is - I understand that it might just be a case of resign, get a new job and forget about it all but I just feel a bit hard done by at the moment.
Thanks in advance.
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Comments
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Seek proper advice, especially if you have more than two years service.
Not really sure how much more input we can really give you if you've exhausted your company's procedures and are considering resigning.“I could see that, if not actually disgruntled, he was far from being gruntled.” - P.G. Wodehouse0 -
It's not really involuntary resignation, you've asked to do less days than you're meant to do and they've said no. I don't really think you have any legal grievance with the company as they don't have to let you work less days than you're meant to do.0
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Becky said she'd look into it, that does not imply all would be ok. The chats between you and Becky were not part of your formal application.
The employer is entitled to refuse a flexible working request for business reasons, and additional costs is a valid reason. If you worked 60% of the the time, that doesn't mean the other person will only cost 40%, there are additional expenses such as NI, pensions, insurance, as well as short term costs such as training.
It's unfortunate that the business cannot/ does not want to accommodate your request, but they have fulfilled their legal obligations towards you.0 -
Seek proper advice, especially if you have more than two years service.
Not really sure how much more input we can really give you if you've exhausted your company's procedures and are considering resigning.
Thank you - I will do but my last appointment with CAB was a bit wishy washy as their employment specific person was on long term sick, my post was just to get people's opinions or if anyone had been in a similar situation. I agree that there is probably not much to be gained as I have done all I can through the policies.
Thank you - perhaps I have misunderstood the involuntary resignation so if this is not applicable I am glad that you have made me aware of that.It's not really involuntary resignation, you've asked to do less days than you're meant to do and they've said no. I don't really think you have any legal grievance with the company as they don't have to let you work less days than you're meant to do.Becky said she'd look into it, that does not imply all would be ok. The chats between you and Becky were not part of your formal application.
The employer is entitled to refuse a flexible working request for business reasons, and additional costs is a valid reason. If you worked 60% of the the time, that doesn't mean the other person will only cost 40%, there are additional expenses such as NI, pensions, insurance, as well as short term costs such as training.
It's unfortunate that the business cannot/ does not want to accommodate your request, but they have fulfilled their legal obligations towards you.
Thank you, I think I just needed to hear it from a different perspective as I am obviously upset by the decision and maybe clouded by this. If they have fulfilled their legal obligations then that is that, I shall let go and get on with whatever adventure is next in store for me.
I do understand that the cost of just employing someone else is there but they had explained in the appeal decision that these costs were 'sunk' so would not bear any impact on the decision...which I guess has confused/annoyed me more!0 -
I'm afraid that I have to agree. Your right is to return to your existing role or a suitable alternative on the same pay and conditions - asking to reduce hours changes that job to something different. You had a right to ask. They've refused. And that's that. You can still return full time, so any resignation is voluntary on your part. Without meaning to sound harsh, your child care problems are yours , not your employers. It does appear to be a rather poor excuse for the employer, and out of keeping with the spirit of the law. But, I'm afraid the spirit isn't the law!0
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Thank you - I wholly accept this and will just, for want of better words, get over it. I just know it would work and be beneficial for it to be a job share but as they have covered their backs (and perhaps just see things differently) I won't waste any more time stewing on it!I'm afraid that I have to agree. Your right is to return to your existing role or a suitable alternative on the same pay and conditions - asking to reduce hours changes that job to something different. You had a right to ask. They've refused. And that's that. You can still return full time, so any resignation is voluntary on your part. Without meaning to sound harsh, your child care problems are yours , not your employers. It does appear to be a rather poor excuse for the employer, and out of keeping with the spirit of the law. But, I'm afraid the spirit isn't the law!0 -
In most large organisations it seems to be the case that you have to submit a formal application. Before then, informal chats don't mean very much. As your manager, Becky should have informed you of that, at the very least to curb your disappointment.
Bear in mind that if you were paid anything over SMP during maternity leave, you may be asked to pay it back if you are now resigning. Check your contract.0 -
For what it is worth, they are being quite ridiculous I think. But that's just my opinion. Yes, best to let them go their own way. If this is the way they value your contribution, you'll no doubt find someone who can do better!Thank you - I wholly accept this and will just, for want of better words, get over it. I just know it would work and be beneficial for it to be a job share but as they have covered their backs (and perhaps just see things differently) I won't waste any more time stewing on it!0 -
How far into your Mat Leave did Becky depart and Gary start? If Gary has been there for a few months, it could be that something has changed in the business, in the processes, in the expectation of your role - something of which you & Becky wouldn't be aware - that makes a job share less of an appropriate option for the role.
When it comes to additional costs, presumably somebody else has been covering your role on a fixed contract - so there might not be additional training costs, the business has already spent that money training the person covering you, and could keep that person in role instead.
In terms of your notice period, yes, you would be expected to work it. But presumably you have annual leave and public holidays that you have accrued during your maternity leave, so could those be used to offset the notice period, either fully or at least taking you down to part-time working for those weeks?:heartpuls Mrs Marleyboy :heartpuls
MSE: many of the benefits of a helpful family, without disadvantages like having to compete for the tv remote
Proud Parents to an Aut-some son 0 -
In most large organisations it seems to be the case that you have to submit a formal application. Before then, informal chats don't mean very much. As your manager, Becky should have informed you of that, at the very least to curb your disappointment.
Bear in mind that if you were paid anything over SMP during maternity leave, you may be asked to pay it back if you are now resigning. Check your contract.
Thank you - Yes I do agree, however with this company it does depend on who you are talking to...sometimes people sort things informally and then the next has to do it formally, it all depends. The relationship I have with Becky means that this topic of conversation would have always started with a chat and then followed up with what was necessary paperwork wise, I have known people in the company to change working hours without having to do a statutory request so I think it just depends! Never know what is best which is where it gets annoying for certain people, myself included! :rotfl:
I was only on SMP so thankfully, nothing to pay back...phew!0
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