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  • FIRST POST
    • MSE Megan F
    • By MSE Megan F 9th Jan 18, 8:19 PM
    • 196Posts
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    MSE Megan F
    MSE News: Credit and debit card charges banned from Saturday - what you need to know
    • #1
    • 9th Jan 18, 8:19 PM
    MSE News: Credit and debit card charges banned from Saturday - what you need to know 9th Jan 18 at 8:19 PM
    From Saturday you should no longer be charged a fee for opting to pay via credit or debit card - but companies will still be able to add booking or admin fees as long as they also apply to other forms of payment...
    Read the full story:
    'Credit and debit card charges banned from Saturday - what you need to know'

    Click reply below to discuss. If you havenít already, join the forum to reply.
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Page 3
    • amstel2
    • By amstel2 11th Jan 18, 5:59 PM
    • 256 Posts
    • 36 Thanks
    amstel2
    Just Eat in the news for adding 50p Service charge to all orders


    Cheeky or sneaky you make up your own mind
    Originally posted by I luv cats
    If enough people ditch them they will have to drop the charge.
    • eskbanker
    • By eskbanker 11th Jan 18, 7:21 PM
    • 6,056 Posts
    • 6,056 Thanks
    eskbanker
    A conversation with local council in respect of Ringo parking payments elicited this reply:
    "...Council does not pass on the cost of taking payment by debit/credit for parking to customers. The only potential charge in addition to the fee for parking is made by Ringo where customers elect to use their services. Again the cost of taking the payment for parking if using a debit/credit card is met by the Council."
    The non optional fee is a "Convenience Fee" for paying by credit card
    £1 parking charge costs £1.20 if using a credit card.
    Would this qualify because a third party is involved in the payment for the service?
    JohnM
    Originally posted by JohnM5206
    I believe that it's valid for the council to charge £1 for all forms of payment they accept and Ringgo to charge £1.20 for all forms of payment they accept, as neither is actually surcharging to differentiate between payment methods.

    The way I see it, Ringgo is effectively acting as an agent in the same way that, say, a travel agent might charge a different price for booking a hotel from what you'd pay by going direct, so IMHO the fact that it's ultimately the same parking space doesn't oblige Ringgo to charge the same as the council for it.
    • eskbanker
    • By eskbanker 11th Jan 18, 7:29 PM
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    eskbanker
    I wouldn't be so sure. It seems to me that Payment Services Directive 2 (PSD2) is a lot about breaking open closed networks and creating "open access". The bit we are talking about (no surcharges) is just one effect and maybe we are looking at PSD2 through the wrong end of the telescope if the overall effect will be to encourage consumers to expect to use any payment method they choose and thus to put pressure on merchants and upline payment services partners to make sure they offer what consumers want?
    Originally posted by blaggrr
    I think you're looking through the wrong telescope

    You may well be right with your speculation about the long-term future of payments but in the context of this thread about what specific changes apply to card payments from Saturday, it's all about eliminating surcharges, even though PSD2 does indeed bring other things into play elsewhere, such as open banking. Whether or not this will ultimately lead to significant changes to the payment landscape is something that'll shake out over a somewhat longer period than this calendar year though....
    • NoodleDoodleMan
    • By NoodleDoodleMan 12th Jan 18, 12:13 PM
    • 194 Posts
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    NoodleDoodleMan
    An interesting point was raised on a holiday chat website.

    Can UK based package holiday tour operators still apply a % fee for goods or sevices purchased outwith the EU ?

    For example, if you were to book an excursion from a Thomas Cook local representative in Florida, would TC be legally entitled to apply a CC surcharge ?

    Or on an onboard cabin account on a cruise operating outwith EU territorial waters ?
    • crispy duck
    • By crispy duck 12th Jan 18, 2:54 PM
    • 8 Posts
    • 8 Thanks
    crispy duck
    Can UK based package holiday tour operators still apply a % fee for goods or sevices purchased outwith the EU ?

    For example, if you were to book an excursion from a Thomas Cook local representative in Florida, would TC be legally entitled to apply a CC surcharge ?

    Or on an onboard cabin account on a cruise operating outwith EU territorial waters ?
    Originally posted by NoodleDoodleMan
    From the article on the main MSE site linked in the first post on this thread:

    the ban on card surcharges applies to any transaction when the bank(s) of the consumer and the retailer are based within the EU, or Iceland, Liechtenstein or Norway.
    So it depends on that. I would guess that the Thomas Cook rep in Florida will be charging through a US bank, and the cruise (assuming it's an EU based cruise line) will be charging through an EU bank, but it will obviously vary from case to case.
    • NoodleDoodleMan
    • By NoodleDoodleMan 12th Jan 18, 6:06 PM
    • 194 Posts
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    NoodleDoodleMan
    Thanks Mr.Duck - I doubt such a retail purchase would transact through a UK or EU bank.

    The moral of this story is - purchase as much of your holiday package or cruise deal as possible up front in the UK.
    • liviboy
    • By liviboy 13th Jan 18, 9:09 AM
    • 373 Posts
    • 133 Thanks
    liviboy
    PayPal is still charging to use a credit card as if 9am this morning...are they exempt from the legislation (I.e. sending money isn’t covered but retail transactions are?).

    Sending or receiving money between friends and family within the UK (in GBP) :Free when funded by the sender’s PayPal balance, bank account or debit card. If you use a credit card to send money, a fee of 3.4% + 20p applies.
    https://www.paypal.com/uk/webapps/mpp/paypal-fees

    Checked with a wee test transaction...
    • eskbanker
    • By eskbanker 13th Jan 18, 12:39 PM
    • 6,056 Posts
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    eskbanker
    PayPal is still charging to use a credit card as if 9am this morning...are they exempt from the legislation (I.e. sending money isnít covered but retail transactions are?).

    Sending or receiving money between friends and family within the UK (in GBP) :Free when funded by the senderís PayPal balance, bank account or debit card. If you use a credit card to send money, a fee of 3.4% + 20p applies.
    https://www.paypal.com/uk/webapps/mpp/paypal-fees

    Checked with a wee test transaction...
    Originally posted by liviboy
    This raises an interesting issue - if PayPal aren't allowed to charge extra for credit card payments in this way then this would effectively become a free way of withdrawing cash from a credit card account! Is this a loophole or is their surcharge exempt from the new regulations?
    • eskbanker
    • By eskbanker 13th Jan 18, 1:09 PM
    • 6,056 Posts
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    eskbanker
    Just made a booking with Ryanair and am happy, but mildly surprised, to advise that they appear to be fully compliant with the new rules, although I'm not under any illusion that they won't have raised their fares (and the plethora of ancillary add-on costs) to compensate, albeit they haven't done so overnight....
    • Stompa
    • By Stompa 13th Jan 18, 1:31 PM
    • 7,618 Posts
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    Stompa
    Well it'll make no difference to me. In almost 40 years of using cards, I've never been asked to pay any sort of fee or surcharge.
    Stompa
    • Nick_C
    • By Nick_C 13th Jan 18, 1:51 PM
    • 3,360 Posts
    • 4,598 Thanks
    Nick_C
    Well it'll make no difference to me. In almost 40 years of using cards, I've never been asked to pay any sort of fee or surcharge.
    Originally posted by Stompa
    Well lucky you! The travel sector was probably the worst with airlines and travel agents charging both CC surcharges.

    I found TAs would usually drop the fee if you asked them to. People used to get around BA's CC surcharge by changing the country location when booking online.

    I've paid CC surcharges in the past to get S75 protection. The surcharge used to be offset by a reasonable amount of cashback.
    • TheShape
    • By TheShape 13th Jan 18, 5:48 PM
    • 1,185 Posts
    • 970 Thanks
    TheShape
    Just made a booking with Ryanair and am happy, but mildly surprised, to advise that they appear to be fully compliant with the new rules, although I'm not under any illusion that they won't have raised their fares (and the plethora of ancillary add-on costs) to compensate, albeit they haven't done so overnight....
    Originally posted by eskbanker
    I have just heard a Ryanair advert on the radio (LBC) that stated they have a 2% credit card charge. Perhaps someone played an old tape.
    • chattychappy
    • By chattychappy 14th Jan 18, 11:35 AM
    • 6,531 Posts
    • 3,456 Thanks
    chattychappy
    Just made a booking with Ryanair and am happy
    Originally posted by eskbanker
    My condolences.

    (apologies for selective quoting, but couldn't resist)
    • crumpetman
    • By crumpetman 14th Jan 18, 12:31 PM
    • 210 Posts
    • 565 Thanks
    crumpetman
    This raises an interesting issue - if PayPal aren't allowed to charge extra for credit card payments in this way then this would effectively become a free way of withdrawing cash from a credit card account! Is this a loophole or is their surcharge exempt from the new regulations?
    Originally posted by eskbanker
    It would be great if you could topup paypal with a credit card and pay no fee. There must be some reason why they can impose a fee for using a credit card instead of debit card, probably some money laundering rules or because it is treated as a cash advance? With other transactions you are actually buying something whether it is a holiday, motor insurance, a tax bill etc.

    With paypal "send money to a friend" you are just transferring some cash, it isn't for a transaction.

    This has prompted me to check the discount scheme my employer uses which means I can buy various gift cards at a discount but up until yesterday if I paid for them by credit card it added a few % fee. No more though which means I can happily use a reward or cashback credit card for some extra discounts! Shame they don't take AMEX though.
    Last edited by crumpetman; 14-01-2018 at 1:36 PM.
    • sidda01
    • By sidda01 15th Jan 18, 3:04 PM
    • 1 Posts
    • 0 Thanks
    sidda01
    Can I reclaim charges for a future holiday?
    On 4th January, TUI charged me £90 for using a credit card to pay for a holiday booked for the end of March. I had no choice but to use a credit card because of their full payment 12 weeks before travelling rule. They then removed the credit card surcharges on the 9th January. Do I have ground to claim back my £90?

    Thanks,

    Darren
    • eskbanker
    • By eskbanker 15th Jan 18, 7:30 PM
    • 6,056 Posts
    • 6,056 Thanks
    eskbanker
    On 4th January, TUI charged me £90 for using a credit card to pay for a holiday booked for the end of March. I had no choice but to use a credit card because of their full payment 12 weeks before travelling rule. They then removed the credit card surcharges on the 9th January. Do I have ground to claim back my £90?
    Originally posted by sidda01
    No - they levied a charge that was consistent with their Ts & Cs (and the law) as at the time of making the payment and the fact that later payments won't be subject to that charge is irrelevant.

    If, for the sake of argument, they'd increased a card fee after you'd paid, would you have been happy to stump up a higher amount if they'd chased you for it?!
    • brianposter
    • By brianposter 15th Jan 18, 8:55 PM
    • 171 Posts
    • 36 Thanks
    brianposter
    The UK has gone beyond the requirements of the directive by treating Amex and PayPal the same as EU credit cards.
    Originally posted by Nick_C
    Isn"t this the sort of stupidity that led us to vote to leave the EU ?
    • Fingerbobs
    • By Fingerbobs 16th Jan 18, 11:28 AM
    • 356 Posts
    • 83 Thanks
    Fingerbobs

    This has prompted me to check the discount scheme my employer uses which means I can buy various gift cards at a discount but up until yesterday if I paid for them by credit card it added a few % fee. No more though which means I can happily use a reward or cashback credit card for some extra discounts! Shame they don't take AMEX though.
    Originally posted by crumpetman


    Perks at Work removed the fee on Saturday. I'd been waiting until then to top-up my gift cards. Now always choose the WOWpoints option, even if it's an equivalent discount, to make the full cashback on the credit card :-)
    • jon81uk
    • By jon81uk 16th Jan 18, 11:54 AM
    • 792 Posts
    • 514 Thanks
    jon81uk
    PayPal is still charging to use a credit card as if 9am this morning...are they exempt from the legislation (I.e. sending money isnít covered but retail transactions are?).



    https://www.paypal.com/uk/webapps/mpp/paypal-fees

    Checked with a wee test transaction...
    Originally posted by liviboy
    A fee to send money to a friend, is not in the scope of this legislation.
    If a retailer (eg Topshop) charged you 5% to use paypal, that is now illegal. But if Paypal want to charge you to send money to another paypal user, that is a different type of transaction and not covered under this ruling.
    • liviboy
    • By liviboy 16th Jan 18, 4:19 PM
    • 373 Posts
    • 133 Thanks
    liviboy
    A fee to send money to a friend, is not in the scope of this legislation.
    If a retailer (eg Topshop) charged you 5% to use paypal, that is now illegal. But if Paypal want to charge you to send money to another paypal user, that is a different type of transaction and not covered under this ruling.
    Originally posted by jon81uk
    Thanks for that - itís sort of what I expected...itís the reference to ďservicesĒ and this could be seen as a service.

    Funnily enough, I sent a message to PayPal and they actually donít know the answer...so far this is my reply:

    Hi liviboy, as these are new rules for us as well, I'm going to send your inquiry to a specialist who can help to ensure that you get accurate information. You should be hearing from them as soon as they can reply. 🙂
    Itíll be interesting to see if their specialistís response mirrors yours which is quite clear :-)
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