Infrared Heating Panels....Again!

tonyE1 · 3 October 2014 at 1:41PM

Richie-from-the-Boro wrote: »

Yes we met once before ..................

I think you maybe spend too much time here

Richie-from-the-Boro · 3 October 2014 at 2:21PM

tonyE1 wrote: »

I think you maybe spend too much time here

- I do, pity purveyors of warez frequent here so much, still as you say ;
- I do spend so much time here watching those sellers of warez adverising their company name against the forum rules
- and asking myself """ask who paid the piper""" ?

Peteinnit · 27 October 2015 at 11:42AM

Hi all,
I've read this thread with interest and a little confusion and was hoping to resurrect it briefly (sorry). It seems there is no simple answer to the question, which is the most economical, which is what us laymen would like. Ideally all would just concur and tell us what we should install, but it seems to be 6 of one and half dozen of another. I've described my circumstance below and am hoping there might be some agreement in my conclusion.

I have 15+ year old Dimplex XLS storage heaters, with a Pulsacoil 'boiler' and have been looking at my alternatives for replacement heaters, trying to compare benefits of new storage (Dimplex Quantum or new XLS) vs electric rads (Haverland) vs infrared (after reading this!).

I've based my rough calcs on worst case in winter for the largest heater in the lounge, currently a 3.4kw vs a 1.7kw rad/infra red. I've assumed 2 hour boost on weekdays and 5 hour on weekends for the storage and 7 hours/weekday (7-9am + 6-11pm) and 12 hours/Sat and Sun for the rads. I realise this might be high usage, but even reducing the hours the cost difference on the heating doesn't seem to be massive between the two.

What does make a difference is when you add in the cost of running the Pulsacoil. With new Quantum/XLS it would remain on Economy 7, but if I switch to rads/infrared, I would loose the cheaper rate. If I kept E7 solely for the boiler, the rads would be running on an even higher daytime rate, either way wipes out any savings I might make on the heating quite considerably.

So, for my circumstance it would seem a no brainer to replace with new storage heaters, does that seem to be the correct route? I think that's the way to go, but it would be nice to have it confirmed by people more in the know.

If so, it's choosing between the Quantum or new XLS auto. I've heard/read some good things about the Quantums, so would be interested to hear any impartial views on them and if anyone has experience of them. Are they worth the extra cost over the XLS automatics?

Any advise would be much appreciated.

Many thanks,
Peter (Newbie)

Cardew · 27 October 2015 at 11:56AM

Welcome to the forum.

I've based my rough calcs on worst case in winter for the largest heater in the lounge, currently a 3.4kw vs a 1.7kw rad/infra red.

What is the reasoning for using that comparison?

Given all electrical heating is 100% efficient, a 1.7kW heater of any type(including IR) will produce 50% of the heat of a 3.4kWh albeit cost a half of the running costs if using the same supply.

Obviously a 3.4kW storage heater on economy 7 will produce twice the heat of a 1.7kW IR heater(using peak rate) for roughly the same cost.

matelodave · 27 October 2015 at 12:18PM

I think you are doing your sums wrong - a 3.4kw storage heater can store up to around 24kwh of heat using off peak electricity when it's fully charged which is released thoughout the day.

This would be equivalent to your 1.7kw heater using either standard or peak rate electricity being on for over 14 hours to give the same amount of heat which as you've already pointed out would cost significantly more than running a storage heater.

You need to do proper heat calculations to see how much heat you'd need to raise & maintain your desired inside temperature and you may find that 1.7kw isn't enough. Too small a heater will flog away all the time as the thermostat won't switch off and you'll still be cold - so do your sums first before jumping in.

Bear in mind that a storage heater will keep the place warm most of the time whereas turning a rad on & off has to raise the temperature from cold every morning and evening so would probably need to be a bit bigger to get the room up to temperature in a reasonable amount of time

Richie-from-the-Boro · 27 October 2015 at 2:31PM

What does make a difference is when you add in the cost of running the Pulsacoil

Welcome to the forum.

Pulsacoil, is in fact a thermal store not an immersion heater [hot water that never changes] the plate heat exchanger and pump then transfers heat to cold tap water. There are more layers of complexity and more opportunities for failure and in general in my opinion an unnecessarily complex system. Haverland is simply the very expensive [£500 for a 2kW] aesthetic end of a panel heater. The XLS auto is a perfectly adequate replacement for an XLS manual but one for which you will never make an economic return. The Quantum is an excellent system with better heat retention in each individual can but really only makes an economic return when its a full central control system in conjunction with a Quantum water heater.

amtrakuk · 4 November 2015 at 11:47PM

Easy, Get a cheap convection heater from Argos - with exception of heap pumps which are REALLY expensive, a 2kW heater will produce 2kW of heat. From experience a halogen one is great if your within its beam otherwise its cold. A radiator is great if your heating the room for a longer period (2hrs plus). A convection heater is more suitable for the "on demand" lifestyle as it will heat the air in your room quickly. Just make sure whatever heater you use has a thermostat

Cardew · 5 November 2015 at 9:30AM

amtrakuk wrote: »

Easy, Get a cheap convection heater from Argos - with exception of heap pumps which are REALLY expensive, a 2kW heater will produce 2kW of heat. From experience a halogen one is great if your within its beam otherwise its cold. A radiator is great if your heating the room for a longer period (2hrs plus). A convection heater is more suitable for the "on demand" lifestyle as it will heat the air in your room quickly. Just make sure whatever heater you use has a thermostat

Agreed.

Just in case anyone thinks that a heat pump defies the laws of physics, a heat pump is not a 'heater'. It is a device for extracting heat from outside the property and transferring into the property.

Spinneyman · 17 October 2016 at 1:52PM

Hi, I'm new to the site. Not sure if this is still a live thread, but if so would appreciate any thoughts on my conundrum. We have a barn, approx 90 mtrs2 and a vaulted ceiling 4mtrs at its highest point. We've used it as a 'second home' mainly in the summer, but are now going to try to set it up as a holiday let. It has a woodburner (12kw) and a number of oil filled rads. This is OK for part of the year but not sufficient for cooler times. So will keep the woodburner and ditch the rads. But replace with what?

My current thoughts are radiant heat rather than convection. Maybe an infrared in the shower room?

But dont know how to heat the main room so guests are happy. Ceiling is now insulated and clad (rock wool). Two end gables are not outside walls. But the other two are outside walls and non insulated stud partition. We have gas in the main house but i'm guessing it would be very expensive to extend it? Considering radiant heaters, but best buys appear to be only in the states. Also considering IR rads, or maybe a mix of all?

CashStrapped · 17 October 2016 at 2:30PM

Any space that large will probably cost a lot of money to heat.

As others have pointed out, you either heat the people using focused radiant heaters, or the space using convection heaters. Although the former will leave large areas of the building feeling rather cold.

Large powerful storage heaters may be a possible choice, but I assume it is all metered from the main house. So without it's own E7 supply this could be difficult.

I would say it is more about getting the correct sized heaters for the property.

I do not see why the "best buys" are all made in USA. Are you sure you do not mean, the ones with the best marketing budget?

As many of the regulars point-out.....regularly....all electric heating is 100% efficient. It just depends on the power output of each heater that determines how powerful they are.

Check out the large range on a website such as this....

https://www.heatershop.co.uk/

It should give examples of all the types you should want or need to consider. Look around for deals elsewhere as you may find them cheaper.

You may want to get an epc certificate for the space. That should enable you to calculate the correct sized heaters for the space.

Furthermore, if the calculations show that electric heating such a large space will be hugely expensive. It may be much cheaper in the long term to consider central (gas) heating.

So in conclusion, I think you need more specific calculations made based on the size, level of insulation and heating (power output) required to keep the space warm. From there you can do the maths and work out the short and long term costs or each heating solution. then pick the cheapest.

Infrared Heating Panels....Again!

Comments

Categories

Get our FREE Weekly email full of deals & guides - and it’s spam-free