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  • FIRST POST
    blueback
    Charging Order? The myth
    • #1
    • 26th Jul 09, 11:28 AM
    Charging Order? The myth 26th Jul 09 at 11:28 AM
    I feel that this is so important that I thought a new thread should be made to highlight the importance of understanding the law on Charging Orders and how many people are stuck with their property in the false believe that they have had a Charging Order put on their property.

    In particular the thousands of Northern Rock customers that have had unsecured debt turned into secured debt by their tactics.

    If your property is jointly owned a creditor will not be able to obtain a CO against you, they can only get what is called a restriction.

    The laws on Restrictions are totally different to Orders, the most important being there is NO OBLIGATION for you to pay any of the proceeds of the sale to the creditor.

    However, during the whole court process you go through the reference from all parties (especially the creditor) will be to charging order and NOT to restriction. This is done in order to decieve you believing you are stuck with a CO.

    However, not all solicitors are aware of the law in this regard and it is important that you raise this point with them in the first instance before proceeding with them

    Quote:

    Restriction


    The restriction which can be entered on the register where a charging order is made against one of joint proprietors is in the following form :-
    No disposition of the registered estate is to be registered without a certificate signed by the applicant for registration or his conveyancer that written notice of the disposition was given to [name of person with the benefit of the charging order] at [address for service], being the person with the benefit of [an interim] [a final] charging order on the beneficial interest of (name of judgment debtor) made by the (name of court) on (date) (Court reference.…).
    You are therefore correct in saying that when the Land Registry receives an application to register, for example a transfer, we will not ask to see the consent of the person who has the benefit of the charging order. We will only want a certificate from the applicant for registration or his conveyancer that the person who has the benefit of the charging order has been given written notice of the transfer.

    If both joint owners sell the land to a third party the restriction will be cancelled when the transfer to the purchasers is registered.


    So I hope I have provided benefit to everyone who has had a restriction entered against them (especially NORTHERN ROCK CUSTOMERS) who believe wrongly that they are Charging Orders.

    You now have the freedom to go and sell your houses with the knowledge that the vultures can do nothing

    I also think this VERY IMPORTANT point needs highlighting by the moderators as many many people are stuck with houses that they believe they cannot sell
Page 3
  • yellowduck
    Totally agree nickneedshelp, Natwest put the fear of god into me at first, thought I was going to lose my home. I have been contemplating writing to my MP about it, with the recession it seems that creditors are being very quick to jump in with charging orders. I had never even heard of them til recently but they seem to be all the rage!!
  • lilly white
    excellent tread.

    lilly white looking in from cag
    • rolleypolleypud
    • By rolleypolleypud 15th Dec 09, 12:19 PM
    • 310 Posts
    • 494 Thanks
    rolleypolleypud
    I hope this isn't a dump question but HSBC/Metropolitan keep threatening me with a charging order for an overdraft their chasing. The house we live in is owned my my Father in Law but they say they can still put a charging order against it Is this true or are they just trying to scare us?
    Nothing to report
  • nickneedshelp
    rolleypolleypud,
    Tell them to try because a charging order can only be applied to the legal owners of the property and as you are not a legal owner they cannot apply for an order.They can default you they can even CCJ you but thats about it.

    Basically you are a tenant and I would remind them of this fact.

    Nick
  • pepe2008
    Just another threat most of the time....
    1st Credit tried it on with me. I asked them to explain in writing the position on Charging Orders/ Restrictions in relation to Jointly Owned Property with their 'debt' in the name of ONE Property Owner only as their commission-driven-collection-monkey on the phone couldn't seem to explain what she was trying to threaten me with......still waiting:confused:

    Never accept anything that a DCA tells you. The Law and what is fair mean NOTHING to them. Either they dont know......or dont care. Couple this with Courts who dont know and........
    stay wonky

    ....one-way ticket to Portugal booked !
  • Mr Nice Guy
    So in terms of a restriction then, or actually CO, are they any implications if you got either of these on a house, and then decided to let it out?

    Thanks for any information
  • nickneedshelp
    Hi,
    From information I have if you rent the property out you obviously still own it and whoever has the Charge can apply to the court for a force of sale.The company with the charge only has to send notification to your last "Recorded" address so if you have moved out and not told them they can still continue because that is down to you not them.
    I am still trying to clarify if a Restriction does exist because various forums say different things and others have said that there is no such thing as a restriction a charging order is the same if jointly held or not.

    Nick
    Last edited by nickneedshelp; 06-01-2010 at 10:32 AM. Reason: nore info
  • nickneedshelp
    Just to add the company with a charge would be unlikely to force a sale if you are living at the property and say have children or someone who is disabled,the courts dont like to apply that side of a charging Order.If your circumstances change ie: you rent out the property, you may find that the company with the Order could go back to court and request a sale because your circumstances will have changed.
    Call the CAB for some help.
  • Mr Nice Guy
    Thanks, are they less likely to apply a charge or restriction if someone at the house had a critical ilness? for example it could cause stress which would be detrimental to health etc....
  • blueback
    Hi,
    From information I have if you rent the property out you obviously still own it and whoever has the Charge can apply to the court for a force of sale.The company with the charge only has to send notification to your last "Recorded" address so if you have moved out and not told them they can still continue because that is down to you not them.
    I am still trying to clarify if a Restriction does exist because various forums say different things and others have said that there is no such thing as a restriction a charging order is the same if jointly held or not.

    Nick
    Originally posted by nickneedshelp
    Nick

    Please either read my post regarding the Land Registry or go on the Land Registry website and it will clarify the restriction issue for you.

    I sold my house with said CO allbeit a restriction because jointly owned, gave the creditor notice that we were selling (legally obliged to do) and moved on with the proceeds.

    Now then, I have done it, I have confirmed it and I have shared it. I still have my equity and I have given others the chance to keep theirs so never assume my post was not sincere in its intent which was to provide valid information.

    The choice is then yours
  • nickneedshelp
    Hi Blueback,
    I did thankyou for your post and lets say this could be invaluable to a lot of people,I was asking if anyone else had had any experience because despite spending a few months on the net and phone calls to some solicitors there is still no further information.
    I would be gratefull if you could let me know (via PM) the name of your solicitor as it seems they know what they are talking about (just like your goodself)and maybe they could help me out.

    Cheers

    Nick
  • blueback
    Hi Blueback,
    I did thankyou for your post and lets say this could be invaluable to a lot of people,I was asking if anyone else had had any experience because despite spending a few months on the net and phone calls to some solicitors there is still no further information.
    I would be gratefull if you could let me know (via PM) the name of your solicitor as it seems they know what they are talking about (just like your goodself)and maybe they could help me out.

    Cheers

    Nick
    Originally posted by nickneedshelp
    Nick

    I cant give out my solicitors details without consent. They are just a standard High Street Solicitor.

    The Land Registry make it very clear with how they deal will C/orders on jointly owned properties

    You are therefore correct in saying that when the Land Registry receives an application to register, for example a transfer (sale of property), we will not ask to see the consent(consent means the creditor has applied to court in time to have priority on any equity ) of the person who has the benefit (the creditor) of the charging order

    We will only want a certificate from the applicant for registration or his conveyancer that the person who has the benefit of the charging order has been given written notice of the transfer.

    If both joint owners sell the land to a third party the restriction will be cancelled when the transfer to the purchasers is registered.

    I will try and gain consent to provide contact details of my solicitor if you still need clarification

    Blueback
  • holly09
    Hi Blueback,

    I've just sent you a personal message with some questions relating to this. Would really appreciate some of your wisdom and experience. Great thread, by the way. Not something that there is much written about elsewhere.

    H
  • usednote
    yep, you've got it. Let them go through the process (fighting them all the way of course). Once the restiction is in place ( Land Registry send you a letter) put the house on the market, inform your solicitor of the situation (make sure thay understand restrictions) and wait for completion.

    Enough on the subject now as we dont want to alert the vultures
    Originally posted by blueback

    My first post on these forums Blueback, I would just like to thank you for posting this info.

    I have a home in joint names with 'my' equity enough to pay off about 70% of my debt. The debt arose through joint ill health but is all in my name. To lose my home would finish me off good and proper and the possibility has brown trousered me ever since hearing about charging orders. I am not trying to avoid paying the debts I just can't work at the moment and am paying the token £1.00 pm. My worry is that my creditors won't wait long enough for me to get well enough to return to work( been paying £1.00 for twenty months now) and am always in dread of that letter that says times up!

    Funny thing is I have been trawling the net about charging orders for weeks and it has only been today that I found a link to this thread
    I feel like a weight has come off, never was "over my dead body" more true

    Thanks again
  • holly09
    I would firstly like to thank Blueback for bringing this to our attention. I am also in the process of, hopefully successfully, selling my home with one of these restrictions. I will update this thread with my experiences once I have had success. In the meantime I found this very interesting article written by a partner at Blake Lapthorn which clearly outlines the weakness of these restrictions.

    Sorry- I'm not allowed to post links in a post. Anyone who would like to be pointed in the direction of this article - please send me a personal mesage.
    • Cumbrian Male
    • By Cumbrian Male 20th Feb 10, 9:31 PM
    • 1,488 Posts
    • 689 Thanks
    Cumbrian Male
    I'm in this situation all debts in my name house jointly owned. I have 2CCJ's and 1 CO. Just at the stage of finding a solicitor and making FF offers.
    I have a cunning plan!
    Proud to be dealing with my debts.

    • fatbelly
    • By fatbelly 4th Mar 10, 1:51 PM
    • 10,821 Posts
    • 8,085 Thanks
    fatbelly
    Just thought I'd post this link to an article written about this 'problem' from the creditor viewpoint

    http://www.bllaw.co.uk/pdf/financeandrecoveries_0806_charging%20orders%20on%2 0property.pdf
    • mummum2
    • By mummum2 4th Mar 10, 2:15 PM
    • 610 Posts
    • 848 Thanks
    mummum2
    Fatbelly,

    Thanks for that, interesting reading......

    MM2
    Long Hauler No: 51
    DMP Mutal Support Thread No: 207
    Proud to be dealing with my debts
    DFD - June '13, aiming for December '12
  • blueback
    At last, not just my word for it. Thx for the link

  • immoral_angeluk
    Hi all, I just wanted to remind everyone that, while I'm not dismissing or agreeing with anything that blueback has said, in the case of property mortgages and charging orders you should ALWAYS seek specialist legal advice and not rely on the advice from a forum as it's impossible to know the history of posters, their motives and the extent of their knowledge.

    You can find a specialist housing solicitor through the following link, which also has a calculator for legal aid.
    http://www.communitylegaladvice.org.uk/gateway/housing.jsp


    Just for the record this isn't anything personal against blueback, I just want to remind people that anyone and everyone can post what they like on here so it's ALWAYS best to back up anything through a legal specialist, especially when it involves debt and housing.
    Total Debt Nov '11 - £6801 Now debt free!

    Lessons learned: Live, love and be in the moment. See the world and its wonders, or life will pass you by. LIVE IT.
    Que sera, sera. <3
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