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  • FIRST POST
    blueback
    Charging Order? The myth
    • #1
    • 26th Jul 09, 11:28 AM
    Charging Order? The myth 26th Jul 09 at 11:28 AM
    I feel that this is so important that I thought a new thread should be made to highlight the importance of understanding the law on Charging Orders and how many people are stuck with their property in the false believe that they have had a Charging Order put on their property.

    In particular the thousands of Northern Rock customers that have had unsecured debt turned into secured debt by their tactics.

    If your property is jointly owned a creditor will not be able to obtain a CO against you, they can only get what is called a restriction.

    The laws on Restrictions are totally different to Orders, the most important being there is NO OBLIGATION for you to pay any of the proceeds of the sale to the creditor.

    However, during the whole court process you go through the reference from all parties (especially the creditor) will be to charging order and NOT to restriction. This is done in order to decieve you believing you are stuck with a CO.

    However, not all solicitors are aware of the law in this regard and it is important that you raise this point with them in the first instance before proceeding with them

    Quote:

    Restriction


    The restriction which can be entered on the register where a charging order is made against one of joint proprietors is in the following form :-
    No disposition of the registered estate is to be registered without a certificate signed by the applicant for registration or his conveyancer that written notice of the disposition was given to [name of person with the benefit of the charging order] at [address for service], being the person with the benefit of [an interim] [a final] charging order on the beneficial interest of (name of judgment debtor) made by the (name of court) on (date) (Court reference.…).
    You are therefore correct in saying that when the Land Registry receives an application to register, for example a transfer, we will not ask to see the consent of the person who has the benefit of the charging order. We will only want a certificate from the applicant for registration or his conveyancer that the person who has the benefit of the charging order has been given written notice of the transfer.

    If both joint owners sell the land to a third party the restriction will be cancelled when the transfer to the purchasers is registered.


    So I hope I have provided benefit to everyone who has had a restriction entered against them (especially NORTHERN ROCK CUSTOMERS) who believe wrongly that they are Charging Orders.

    You now have the freedom to go and sell your houses with the knowledge that the vultures can do nothing

    I also think this VERY IMPORTANT point needs highlighting by the moderators as many many people are stuck with houses that they believe they cannot sell
Page 1
    • lisaf
    • By lisaf 26th Jul 09, 11:46 AM
    • 273 Posts
    • 169 Thanks
    lisaf
    • #2
    • 26th Jul 09, 11:46 AM
    • #2
    • 26th Jul 09, 11:46 AM
    subbing to this thread
  • blueback
    • #3
    • 26th Jul 09, 5:21 PM
    • #3
    • 26th Jul 09, 5:21 PM
    The restriction which can be entered on the register where a charging order is made against one of joint proprietors is in the following form :-

    No disposition of the registered estate is to be registered without a certificate signed
    No sale of the house can be completed without a signed letter in the format prescribed
    by the applicant for registration or his conveyancer that written notice of the
    by the people selling or their solicitor

    disposition was given to [name of person with the benefit of the charging order] at
    stating that notice is given to Northern Rock at their registered head office address
    [address for service], being the person with the benefit of [an interim] [a final] charging
    being the creditor who has a secured charge on the property

    order on the beneficial interest of (name of judgment debtor) made by the (name of court) on (date) (Court reference.…).
    of the debtor who has the CCJ at the court blah blah

    we will not ask to see the consent of the
    We dont need diidly squat from Northern Rock or need to inform them of the pending sale

    person who has the benefit of the charging order. We will only want a certificate from the applicant for registration or his conveyancer that the person who has the benefit of the charging order has been given written notice of the transfer.
    All we need is the letter confirming that Northern Rock has been informed of the date of completion

    If both joint owners sell the land to a third party the restriction will be cancelled when the transfer to the purchasers is registered.
    On completion date Northern Rock can swing on my finger and wave goodbye to their fake seurity

    I hope this helps to the PM
  • torty
    • #4
    • 27th Jul 09, 10:44 AM
    help
    • #4
    • 27th Jul 09, 10:44 AM
    I feel that this is so important that I thought a new thread should be made to highlight the importance of understanding the law on Charging Orders and how many people are stuck with their property in the false believe that they have had a Charging Order put on their property.

    In particular the thousands of Northern Rock customers that have had unsecured debt turned into secured debt by their tactics.

    If your property is jointly owned a creditor will not be able to obtain a CO against you, they can only get what is called a restriction.

    The laws on Restrictions are totally different to Orders, the most important being there is NO OBLIGATION for you to pay any of the proceeds of the sale to the creditor.

    However, during the whole court process you go through the reference from all parties (especially the creditor) will be to charging order and NOT to restriction. This is done in order to decieve you believing you are stuck with a CO.

    However, not all solicitors are aware of the law in this regard and it is important that you raise this point with them in the first instance before proceeding with them

    Quote:

    Restriction


    The restriction which can be entered on the register where a charging order is made against one of joint proprietors is in the following form :-
    No disposition of the registered estate is to be registered without a certificate signed by the applicant for registration or his conveyancer that written notice of the disposition was given to [name of person with the benefit of the charging order] at [address for service], being the person with the benefit of [an interim] [a final] charging order on the beneficial interest of (name of judgment debtor) made by the (name of court) on (date) (Court reference.…).
    You are therefore correct in saying that when the Land Registry receives an application to register, for example a transfer, we will not ask to see the consent of the person who has the benefit of the charging order. We will only want a certificate from the applicant for registration or his conveyancer that the person who has the benefit of the charging order has been given written notice of the transfer.

    If both joint owners sell the land to a third party the restriction will be cancelled when the transfer to the purchasers is registered.


    So I hope I have provided benefit to everyone who has had a restriction entered against them (especially NORTHERN ROCK CUSTOMERS) who believe wrongly that they are Charging Orders.

    You now have the freedom to go and sell your houses with the knowledge that the vultures can do nothing

    I also think this VERY IMPORTANT point needs highlighting by the moderators as many many people are stuck with houses that they believe they cannot sell
    Originally posted by blueback
    i have 2 charging orders against me for circa 14k, i have split with snake with tits, but i am told i cannot sell, about 5k equity in house, help appreciated
  • blueback
    • #5
    • 27th Jul 09, 11:11 AM
    • #5
    • 27th Jul 09, 11:11 AM
    If you own the property jointly then you have not got full charging orders you have charging order restriction which means you are free to sell the property as long as your solicitor provided notice to the creditor.

    A creditor cannot be granted a charging order on a jointly owned property

    The proceeds of sale will be yours and the restriction falls away on completion.

    I am not a solicitor and you should get proper advice before proceeding

    Cheers
    • MyLastFiver
    • By MyLastFiver 27th Jul 09, 11:53 AM
    • 820 Posts
    • 1,302 Thanks
    MyLastFiver
    • #6
    • 27th Jul 09, 11:53 AM
    • #6
    • 27th Jul 09, 11:53 AM
    i have split with snake with tits
    Originally posted by torty
  • Marthasdad
    • #7
    • 27th Jul 09, 12:13 PM
    • #7
    • 27th Jul 09, 12:13 PM
    Read this with great interest and think I've been diddled!

    We sold our house 3 years ago and had 2 charging orders on debts just in my name, but the house was in both mine and the wife's name - we had to pay the creditors with the proceeds (around £11k).

    Guess there's nothing I can do about it now, and at least we paid off the debts, which would've had to be paid at some point, but the Bas****s conned me into paying in full when I didn't need to!!?
  • blueback
    • #8
    • 27th Jul 09, 7:07 PM
    • #8
    • 27th Jul 09, 7:07 PM
    This is why it is so important to find a solicitor that knows the difference. I was resigned to having 15k automatically removed from the proceeds.

    My solicitor (normal high street solicitor) promised me that I wouldn't lose anything.
  • moneybuster
    • #9
    • 27th Jul 09, 8:21 PM
    • #9
    • 27th Jul 09, 8:21 PM
    is this just northen rock or dose it apply to all lenders creditors going for charging orders

    MB
    three things for the life ahead
    Faith Hope and plenty of Charity
  • blueback
    No its not just Northern Rock

    Any creditor that uses the charging order route to change an unsecured debt into a secured debt is not fully securing their debt if the land is owned jointly.

    As long as the conveyencor provides notice to the creditor and gives an undertaking to the purchasers solicitor that the creditor has been notified and that the restriction will become void on purchase, they are fulfilling the law and as stated above, it is then upto the creditor to act before completion takes place.

    To give a false undertaking to another solicitor is a serious offence and therefore, all solicitors will duly complete the transaction based on any undertaking given by a fellow solicitor.

    A creditor rarely has time to act before the signatures are made.

    Remember I am not a solicitor and you should confirm this with one before starting the process, but it is all there on the Land Registry website

    Hope this helps
    • FirstTimer4Me
    • By FirstTimer4Me 28th Jul 09, 3:33 AM
    • 1,014 Posts
    • 121 Thanks
    FirstTimer4Me
    were not educated to understand any of what is posted so can someone help please, we are due to attend court next week to have the interim charging order made final and we think it will be a charging order that is made final

    we jointly own the property so what do we do-say to the judge - solicitor for nr? we can’t afford solicitors and went to cab who said it was best not to fight it as it will be a lot of stress for the same result so we’ve had to fight this on our own.

    we argued that were on a dmp but because nr got a forthwith judgement right after the ccj was given it's all so confusing.

    nr no my oh has suffered a breakdown in the past and we are keeping to the agreed dmp even tho they refused the dmp offer but they just don't care they just keep on putting us under stress look at the time now that's what i mean about stress it's bothering me in case they force us to sell our home.

    if someone can please help us by saying what we should say to there solicitor or the judge next week about the restriction it will help us as i'd love to wipe the smile of there face

    ta for any help
  • blueback
    http://www1.landregistry.gov.uk/asse...t_5_131205.pdf
  • torty
    help
    If you own the property jointly then you have not got full charging orders you have charging order restriction which means you are free to sell the property as long as your solicitor provided notice to the creditor.

    A creditor cannot be granted a charging order on a jointly owned property

    The proceeds of sale will be yours and the restriction falls away on completion.

    I am not a solicitor and you should get proper advice before proceeding

    Cheers
    Originally posted by blueback
    when you say own do you mean mortgaged as still outstanding mortgage on it but ome equity
  • blueback
    ''when you say own do you mean mortgaged as still outstanding mortgage on it but ome equity''

    Yes, jointly mortgaged
  • moneybuster
    who will buy a house with a restriction on it ????? the buyers would should run a mile only possibly a fully clued up shark would be temped ???? what do you think

    Regards MB
    three things for the life ahead
    Faith Hope and plenty of Charity
  • blueback
    The people who bought our house bought it because their solicitor had an undertaking that the restriction would fall away on completion.

    The Land Registry does what is says on the tin - BTW, I am just alerting people to the facts, they can confirm it themselves by calling a solicitor that knows the law.
    • FirstTimer4Me
    • By FirstTimer4Me 28th Jul 09, 4:07 PM
    • 1,014 Posts
    • 121 Thanks
    FirstTimer4Me
    The Land Registry does what is says on the tin - BTW, I am just alerting people to the facts, they can confirm it themselves by calling a solicitor that knows the law.
    Originally posted by blueback

    ta but we still don't understand any of what you're saying and as for calling a solicitor, we used up our 1/2 free time, most others don't seem to know / care what effect the actions of nr have on people

    ta anyway
  • blueback
    "ta but we still dont understand" You are being a bit foolish if you think that just because you do not understand something everyone else will not understand either, arnt you?

    I think I have been very clear in alerting people to the fact that just because they are told they have a charging order does not been they will lose anything now or eventually.

    It has not been that long since people reaslised or were told their rights regarding the CCA Act and begun to fight back.

    The more people that are aware that they are not obligated to pay back anything to a creditor when selling their house with a charging order restriction, (which is the type of charging order that every single creditor has with personal debtors having a joint mortgage), that can only be a good thing, cant it?
  • moneybuster
    So say for instance at a charging order hearing you happen to mention that the mortgage is jointly owned and you know they can only get a restriction on the property, that could move them to go for a forced sale or even bankruptcy for the home owner (equity in property) so is it best to keep shtum about what you know and let the legals deal with it after .



    also if a charging order is made it is only applied to that persons half of the house who owns the debt if not a joint credit card loan debt...............

    MB
    Last edited by moneybuster; 28-07-2009 at 6:02 PM.
    three things for the life ahead
    Faith Hope and plenty of Charity
  • blueback
    yep, you've got it. Let them go through the process (fighting them all the way of course). Once the restiction is in place ( Land Registry send you a letter) put the house on the market, inform your solicitor of the situation (make sure thay understand restrictions) and wait for completion.

    Enough on the subject now as we dont want to alert the vultures
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