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  • FIRST POST
    • mandybanana
    • By mandybanana 16th Feb 17, 10:49 PM
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    mandybanana
    Husband is fuming but I don't understand why
    • #1
    • 16th Feb 17, 10:49 PM
    Husband is fuming but I don't understand why 16th Feb 17 at 10:49 PM
    I am a long time lurker of this site so decided to come here for advice.
    I have been married for 10 years and we have 2 young children. I have a decent job taking home just over 3K per month. My husband works part time ( long story) earning about 1k per month. It actually works out ok as he is able to do school drop offs and pick ups etc.

    We have been in debt for as long as I can remember. Our debts accumulated due to mindless spending, 3k holidays, new cars, meals out etc etc . I never worried too much about it as I could afford the payments and thought that everyone was in the same boat. I deal with the finances so would just transfer balances, take consolidation loans etc and carry on spending. The threat of redundancy at the end of 2015 was my wake up call. We owed 55k at it’s highest. Over the last 14 months I have cleared 15k of debt using the snowball method. I am proud of this.
    To cut a long story sh
    ort, my husband found out that we owe 40k and he has gone mad!! I say ‘found out’ – It was never a secret and he knew that we had loads of debt. He has NEVER taken much interest in our debts and has always been happy for me to sort it all out. He was happy to take the holidays, shopping trips and the new car that he had 18 months ago. Surely he should have wondered how this lifestyle was being funded? #
    He has hit the roof and has told me that he may need to re-evaluate our relationship. I am fuming with him. We both ran up the debts. I accept that I could have communicated more, however he is acting as though I have spent it all on myself.
    Is he being unreasonable or am I deluded?
Page 1
    • freshcotton
    • By freshcotton 16th Feb 17, 11:08 PM
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    freshcotton
    • #2
    • 16th Feb 17, 11:08 PM
    • #2
    • 16th Feb 17, 11:08 PM
    He is being unreasonable, however you both need to stop being angry and hot headed and work through this together.

    You have already shown you can clear £1k a month, with a little more effort that could increase to £1300 or whatever. The fact is that it actually won't take that long to sort and you can change your attitude to money and life on the way.

    Good luck with the journey. A lot of people have been where you are, but you're right, being in debt makes you vulnerable so get out of it as soon as you can
    Mortgage Start - August 2013 £145,000 ************ Balance at April 2017 - £59,000

    Target - Overpay by £2,500 each month ************** Mortgage free by December 2018!
    • January2015
    • By January2015 16th Feb 17, 11:12 PM
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    January2015
    • #3
    • 16th Feb 17, 11:12 PM
    • #3
    • 16th Feb 17, 11:12 PM
    Unless your husband had no idea of your income, and perhaps assumed you were earning far more than you do, then I would say he is being unreasonable.

    Hopefully it's just an initial shocked reaction - albeit not a very nice one - and he will calm down and talk this through reasonably and hopefully you will be able to tackle the debt together.
    DFW Nerd No. 1484 LBM 07/01/15 Debt was £95k DMP now 26.58% paid. That means our debt is in the £60k's
    £1k emergency fund (member #84) £1k/£1k
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    • Sazzie23
    • By Sazzie23 17th Feb 17, 1:11 AM
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    Sazzie23
    • #4
    • 17th Feb 17, 1:11 AM
    • #4
    • 17th Feb 17, 1:11 AM
    Hi

    I'm going to take a guess that something has happened outside the debt to make your husband re-evaluate his financial position. This can be to do with worry over future income, such as illness, family illness, berereavements, someone close being involved in debt or needing financial support such as a parent going into a home. Even pension planning can trigger it off. Any of these things can make you suddenly realise that all this debt is not a great idea. Now I'm not says that his behaviour is reasonable or excusing it, but it's possibly just a reaction to the realisation that all this debt is going to need to be paid at some point.

    I'm not sure why sometimes people find the other person in a relationship to blame for debts, but my ex did the same. Even though for example I ran up debts such as paying his car insurance.....

    If you can sit down and show him where the money is going, do a SOA or perhaps try the Stepchange debt remedy, which is a free on-line tool which can show how to reduce your debt or whether you need to take more drastic steps. It's a useful tool as it shows you where you should be saving money, such as for car repairs, house repairs etc, so that one day debts and credit can be dispensed with.

    I hope you figure it out and strengthen your relationship, but it is a challenging time.

    Saz
    Debt -it's a fight that I'm winning, dealing with debt one day at a time.
    Estimated DFD August 2018 - 2031 - now 2027

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    DMP support no438.
    • enthusiasticsaver
    • By enthusiasticsaver 17th Feb 17, 8:19 AM
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    enthusiasticsaver
    • #5
    • 17th Feb 17, 8:19 AM
    • #5
    • 17th Feb 17, 8:19 AM
    If he never showed an interest in the finances and spent money without ever questioning whether you were getting into debt then yes he is being unreasonable. I think there is more to this than that.

    There are so many people on this forum who struggle without their partner knowing they are in debt and think they are somehow at fault and their partner is blameless. If, as a couple, you are in debt you are both at fault regardless of who looks after the finances. Spending, while being unaware if you can afford it is the issue and claiming your partner looks after the money does not give you a get out of jail free card.

    You have cleared more than 25 % in 14 months. Has he made any changes in his spending behaviour and is now getting fed up with having little spare money? Why did you not communicate the extent of the debt a few years ago when you had your LBM? I am guessing he must be a head in the sand type of guy which is unfair on you. You both spent, you are both culpable and unless all the debt is in your name and he was kept in the dark then you are both equally to blame.
    Debt and mortgage free and saving for early retirement
    • Fireflyaway
    • By Fireflyaway 17th Feb 17, 8:33 AM
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    Fireflyaway
    • #6
    • 17th Feb 17, 8:33 AM
    • #6
    • 17th Feb 17, 8:33 AM
    Did your husband know that the holidays / cars / meals etc where paid off credit cards and that you took out loans ? Maybe he just assumed you were cash flowing it or paying off the cards in full and not just increasing the debt? Whatever happened, I agree that his reaction seems a bit unfair if the money was spent on you both. All I can think is maybe as he allowed you to manage the finance so trusted you not to go into debt and feels a bit let down? From what you say it sounds like he was aware though....
    OK so going forward draw up a budget together and stick to that. We allocate ' spending money' put it in plastic envelopes, one for each week then you can't overspend. That really helps. Don't spend anything outside bills and spending money till you both agree where the money is coming from. As for repayments, you are doing great! Many people have no way out or the debt is there for years but you are making great progress. I also agree with the poster who said your husband may have been triggered by something else. He could have had a bad day and it just came out this way. Dare I say it but you being the higher earner could be an underlying issue. Even if they don' t admit it, some men feel like they are not doing their 'duty' by not being the main earner. Having a go at you is a way to assert his authority regarding money. Just a thought. Good luck this will probably blow over x
    • cats2012
    • By cats2012 17th Feb 17, 8:50 AM
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    cats2012
    • #7
    • 17th Feb 17, 8:50 AM
    • #7
    • 17th Feb 17, 8:50 AM
    I actually slightly disagree here. Yes he enjoyed the spending, but in being happy for you to manage the money he obviously trusted you and yes ok he could have asked but did you ever actually say to him "this new car will need to go on the credit card and we'll be paying it back for X months and X% interest" - if not, I don't think he was wrong to assume things were more comfortable than they are. You had as much of a responsibility to explain the pros/cons of those choices.

    Just my opinion though...and, as others have said, it's more important now to focus on calming down and moving past it. Blame game won't help.
    Officially Mrs B as of March 2013
    TTC since Apr 2015, baby B born March 2017
    • -taff
    • By -taff 17th Feb 17, 8:59 AM
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    -taff
    • #8
    • 17th Feb 17, 8:59 AM
    • #8
    • 17th Feb 17, 8:59 AM
    Suggest to him that you both can sell his new car if he is that upset about the debt since it will obviously bring it down a bit and he can have an old banger.
    His reaction will tell you much about where he thought the money was coming from.....
    • mandybanana
    • By mandybanana 17th Feb 17, 9:04 AM
    • 3 Posts
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    mandybanana
    • #9
    • 17th Feb 17, 9:04 AM
    • #9
    • 17th Feb 17, 9:04 AM
    He has always known that we are in debt - some of it is in his name, although I make the payments.

    He knew that the car was on 0% credit card. He wanted me/us to get a loan but I felt that the 0% card option was better. He will often text me telling me that he is over his overdraft limit and can I put some money in his bank. He will ask to use my credit card to buy things on. He sees me online making balance transfers. He hears me talking about how I can't wait to be debt free. He sees me handing over my credit card when we go shopping. There should be no surprises. The only thing he didn't know was the exact balance of our debt but in reality I didn't know either until I logged on to credit report to find out!!

    I am not prepared to shoulder all of the blame for this
    • blisteringblue
    • By blisteringblue 17th Feb 17, 9:12 AM
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    blisteringblue
    He really needs to get a grip and live in the real world. We were just like you 5 years ago, 60k in debt but just about enough income to manage. Mrs BB wanted to go back to Uni to retrain, so we bit the bullet started a DMP as losing a wage was the end of the juggling. 5 years on and it's not really worked out and although she has a qualification we've decided she can stop work as the DMP is working for us on my wage. Best thing we did for our home life. I know she could get a job and we would be out of debt quicker but what's the point? So we can spend it again? We will be debt free in 3 years max and life is great.

    Your husband will hopefully get past the initial shock, but just remind him he can always go back full time if he finds it that hard to comprehend.
    Debt is not a crime
    Estimated DFD - An Optimistic DEC 2018
    Self-Managed DMP 48.2% Paid
    • -taff
    • By -taff 17th Feb 17, 9:20 AM
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    -taff
    He knew that the car was on 0% credit card.
    Originally posted by mandybanana

    That's pretty outrageous really. I wouldn't even dream of buying a car on a credit card unless I knew damn well I had the means to pay it off before the deal expired. Where did he think these thousands of pounds would be coming form?
    He knows how much he earns, does he think you're Rockerfeller and only there to fund his wants?
    • mandybanana
    • By mandybanana 17th Feb 17, 9:24 AM
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    mandybanana
    That's pretty outrageous really. I wouldn't even dream of buying a car on a credit card unless I knew damn well I had the means to pay it off before the deal expired. Where did he think these thousands of pounds would be coming form?
    He knows how much he earns, does he think you're Rockerfeller and only there to fund his wants?
    Originally posted by -taff

    The car scenario actually worked out ok as we received a small payout that covered the balance - I had come to my senses regarding our money by this point and paid it off the credit card, although in hindsight I should proably have paid one of the cards that was not 0%.

    I agreed to the car scenario so I am not trying to blame it all on him. I just don't accept that he is shocked and angry by our debt level when he has been at least 50% responsible for its accumulation.
    • abby1234519
    • By abby1234519 17th Feb 17, 10:09 AM
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    abby1234519
    The car scenario actually worked out ok as we received a small payout that covered the balance - I had come to my senses regarding our money by this point and paid it off the credit card, although in hindsight I should proably have paid one of the cards that was not 0%.

    I agreed to the car scenario so I am not trying to blame it all on him. I just don't accept that he is shocked and angry by our debt level when he has been at least 50% responsible for its accumulation.
    Originally posted by mandybanana
    tbh it sounds like something else is stressing him out and it's possibly not about the money. Get kids in bed, sit down and have a proper talk about it. You'll soon get to the bottom of it
    Money money money.

    Debt
    Dec 2016: £25,158.71 £21,999.99

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    • tallyhoh
    • By tallyhoh 17th Feb 17, 10:58 AM
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    tallyhoh
    so you work full time & deal with all the finance? I think he's being very unreasonable.
    Tallyhoh!

    Stopped Smoking October 2000. Saved £21,840 so far!
    • enthusiasticsaver
    • By enthusiasticsaver 17th Feb 17, 11:08 AM
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    enthusiasticsaver
    He has always known that we are in debt - some of it is in his name, although I make the payments.

    He knew that the car was on 0% credit card. He wanted me/us to get a loan but I felt that the 0% card option was better. He will often text me telling me that he is over his overdraft limit and can I put some money in his bank. He will ask to use my credit card to buy things on. He sees me online making balance transfers. He hears me talking about how I can't wait to be debt free. He sees me handing over my credit card when we go shopping. There should be no surprises. The only thing he didn't know was the exact balance of our debt but in reality I didn't know either until I logged on to credit report to find out!!

    I am not prepared to shoulder all of the blame for this
    Originally posted by mandybanana
    Choosing a 0% credit card over a loan is a cheaper option so you were right to do this I think. I would not like this system you have where he just asks you to transfer money into his bank if he is overdrawn. How do you arrange your finances? Is it joint account for bills and you each have a personal account? Or are you each responsible for certain bills. Who pays the credit card bills?

    If you have made him aware that you have a significant amount of credit card debt and he sees you doing balance transfers - which is basically just shuffling debt around then he is being very unfair in blaming you and I would be saying to him. We both created this mess and we both have to sort it out. I am not happy we have so much and you are obviously shocked and angry (whether at you or himself) so lets make a plan to clear this or in a few years time you will be looking at £70 or £80k of debt. To be honest though it sounds like you are now on board with clearing it so even if your OH has not said it I will say well done for realising the hole you are in and making a start in sorting it out.

    You are paying £1k minimum to the debt if you have paid it down over 14 months from £55k to £40k. If you have trimmed your budget as far as you feel able and are properly budgeting now and not overspending this is fixable in just over 3 years providing you don't revert to old spending habits or nothing catastrophic happens like redundancy.

    You have a good wage between you and there is no reason why you should need credit to finance your lifestyle. Avoiding new cars and expensive holidays until you are able to save for them though is a must. You have both obviously got in the habit of looking on credit as free money and it is most definitely not. You sound like you have had a mind shift and hopefully if you communicate with your husband he will too.

    Also tell him to ditch the overdraft even if it means him getting a better paid job. It is one of the most expensive forms of borrowing.
    Debt and mortgage free and saving for early retirement
    • ani*fan
    • By ani*fan 18th Feb 17, 8:52 AM
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    ani*fan
    Hi there

    Wow, finances are a really emotional issue aren't they? All the more reason to get it sorted now.

    I agree with a lot of what's been said here already. It sounds like your strategy for managing finances in your family has not been working for a long time. Wihout bashing you over the head with it again, I think you know where the problems lie. You're in the right place, we've all been there and know what that's like.

    However, you've aready seen the light and have done amazingly to get £15k paid off your debt so quickly. Bravo! Obviously you can do it and plan to continue doing it. Keep going!

    Your husband has a right to his own feelings about it, and it's better to be angry than turn this inwards and become depressed. At least he's taking it seriously. Directing all his anger at you, however, is not ok and I think there are ways to help coming to terms with it and stop taking it out on you.

    My advice, (for what it's worth, feel free to ignore) is:

    As has already been suggested, sit him down for a long chat about it all.

    Tell him that yes, your financial relationship (but not any other part of your relationship) needs a serious review, and you're going to do that right now.

    Tell him that you understand he is angry and upset, it's a shock after all, but that it's not possible for you to accept all the responsibility for it. You're both to blame and the good news about that is you can both fix it.

    Include him in the plan to pay it off. Be clear about what you are already doing, and be clear about what you need from him. i.e. no requests for extra payments into his account. Go gently, this sounds like he can be child-like around cash, and you're the parent who gives handouts, but he needs to know that can't happen.

    Tell him that you've been trying to deal with this on your own for so long, and that it's been very difficult, and that you'd really appreciate his help. Two adults with their thinking heads on can fix this even faster than you've been doing on your own so try to encourage that responsible, motivated part of him.

    If he's in any doubt about where the debt came from, then he can have the job of figuring that out. Get him to look through credit card and bank statements, remember all those holidays he enjoyed, think about how much he loves his car, those meals out, what you did together. It's not all bad, you had some good times, but it's time to sort it all out.

    This will be hard on you too as you sound accustomed to being the one dealing with it on your own, shuffling the credit cards and things like that. And finding a balance of who deals with what is not easy. But you can do it. It'll need an ongoing conversation with him though and no more head in the sand.

    If you can get to a point where you can have a laugh about how daft you've been then all the better, but that might take some time.

    Best of luck.
    If you know you have enough, you're rich.
    • FatVonD
    • By FatVonD 18th Feb 17, 12:50 PM
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    FatVonD
    He's behaving like a child.

    If he is earning so much less than you then he probably thinks you are loaded and have no money problems, I agree with the other poster that said to sit him down with statements to work out where it's all gone.

    As an aside, if you have already had one redundancy scare, have you taken out redundancy insurance just in case? It's the sort of thing you might not think to do when redundancy isn't currently on the horizon but, by the time you have an inkling it might be happening it's too late to take it out as you can't claim the if you've been notified within three months of starting the policy. (I know this from bitter experience!)
    Spend on clothes in 2017 £37.50/£33 (Oops!)
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    • DesignNotDefault
    • By DesignNotDefault 18th Feb 17, 1:35 PM
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    DesignNotDefault
    mandybanana,

    My initial reaction to the latter part of your post was "wow...ok". I personally think he is overreacting a tad in suggesting that the relationship needs to be re-evaluated. Perhaps it was the shock of hearing the actual amount of debt you're both in that has sent him spiralling.

    As other posters have suggested, I think communication is the main issue here. Sit down and have a good talk with him about finances, and ensure you keep the focus on this to avoid fuelling emotional reactions. Have all the facts and figures ready and you'll both work it out I'm sure - maybe this jolt was needed for you both to get a handle on it.
    Mortgage @ May 2014 £103,347.24. Mortgage @ 2%, O/P @ £250 p/m from March '17: £93,316.68, £92,949.95, £92,314.97, £91,696.25
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    • EssexHebridean
    • By EssexHebridean 18th Feb 17, 5:00 PM
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    EssexHebridean
    There is a difference between knowing that "we're in debt" and finding out the extent, when the extent is 40k, I suspect. As for whether he should have realised how the lifestyle was being financed - he maybe *should* have done, but actually doing the sums can be another matter. If he sees you routinely getting a credit card out to pay for regular shopping, for example, I can imagine how it might seem that to him, "things must be under control because you're still using the cards, right?". I think there is very much two sides to this - he probably should get more involved with the finances for a start - and secondly you probably should have put your foot down sooner on the spending thing. Thus, you're both at fault,, and he needs to realise now that working together is the way to fix things.

    Personally I would sit down with him and explain that you're sorry he's so upset, and that you never felt the level of debt was a secret, that you certainly never kept it a secret, and that you in turn are shocked at his reaction, and that you feel he's being unreasonable. (You will note - the reference to being sorry he's upset is not an apology - I don't think you have anything to apologise for,and references to the way you feel are helpful because that can't be disputed - if he says "Oh no I'm not!" you can quite reasonably gently say that that's how you feel).

    Get your full SOA (statement of Affairs) drawn up and suggest to him that you both work through it together to see where you can make further savings to get the debt gone faster. Have a laptop handy with the snowball calculator ready so he can see what effect extra payments will make. Above all, reassure him that you're not comfortable with the level of debt either.

    One thing that may be worth thinking about is that people on lower incomes sometimes have a very different take on debt levels than those earning more. From his 1k a month take home perspective, that 40k figure seems a lot more, perhaps, than it does to you on your more comfortable income. He may also be feeling a degree of guilt about not contributing as much as he feels he should - his anger might, in fact, be as much with himself, as anything else.
    MORTGAGE FREE 30/09/2016
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