EE/Orange/T-Mobile - Reclaim ALL price rises AND cancel contract re T&C change - 2

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  • RandomCurve
    RandomCurve Posts: 1,637 Forumite
    edited 15 October 2014 at 8:59PM
    For those still with me fighting Ofcom - please send the below in response to their "we have done no wrong" result of an internal investigation.
    A word copy can be found on the Fight Mobile Increases Website, "Graham - FMI-7x"
    http://fightmobileincreases.com/pressure-ofcom/
    Thanks




    [EMAIL="graham.howell@ofcom.org.uk"]graham.howell@ofcom.org.uk[/EMAIL]
    [EMAIL="Lynn.Parker@ofcom.org.uk"]Lynn.Parker@ofcom.org.uk[/EMAIL]
    [EMAIL="Ed.Richards@ofcom.org.uk"]Ed.Richards@ofcom.org.uk[/EMAIL]



    [EMAIL="Edwin.lane@bbc.co.uk"]Edwin.lane@bbc.co.uk[/EMAIL]
    [EMAIL="joel.taylor@ukmetro.co.uk"]joel.taylor@ukmetro.co.uk[/EMAIL]
    [EMAIL="your.problems@observer.co.uk"]your.problems@observer.co.uk[/EMAIL]
    [EMAIL="Info@fightmobileincreases.com"]Info@fightmobileincreases.com[/EMAIL]


    Dear Mr Howell,


    Having seen the correspondence regarding EEs change in T&Cs, I must say that like other consumers I am at a loss to see where Ofcom have addressed the questions being asked.


    To keep this simple can you confirm that Ofcom as a designated enforcer of the UTCCRs, a protector of the consumer, and the industry regulator:


    1 - Are fully aware that the change in T&Cs allows consumers who signed up to an EE/Orange/T-Mobile contract that contained a price variation clause capping any price increase to the LOWEST inflation rate (which is NEVER RPI), now have a price variation clause that can be capped by RPI, with no means to escape their contract as price increases will be implemented in the FIXED period of their contract.


    2 – Ofcom being fully aware of the above confirms that this is fully complaint with the *UTCCRs with which Ofcom is a designated enforcer.


    I look forward to your response on the above, and confirmation that you have logged this email as an official complaint against Ofcom and EE




    Regards



    *UTTCRs:
    Schedule 2, paragraph 1, states that terms may be unfair if they have the object or effect of:
    (j) enabling the seller or supplier to alter the terms of the contract unilaterally without a valid reason which is specified in the contract.



    10.2 If a term could be used to force the consumer to accept increased costs or penalties, new requirements, or reduced benefits, it is likely to be considered unfair whether or not it is meant to be used in that way. A variation clause can upset the legal balance of the contract even though it was intended solely to facilitate minor adjustments, if its wording means it could be used to impose more substantial changes. This applies to terms giving the supplier the right to make corrections to contracts at its discretion and without liability.

  • MrJester
    MrJester Posts: 1,015 Forumite
    First Anniversary Combo Breaker
    Mikmonken wrote: »
    Your the first case but you have nothing to lose and yes Ee will submit a defence and it will be long it'll be largely irrelevant and its whole aim will be to discredit rather than dedend their actions. But...RC is pretty good at this to just wish you'd applied for compensation as you'll be setting the precedent now!

    It's now the 14th and I haven't received anything about a defence from EE. Next step?
  • Mikmonken
    Mikmonken Posts: 371 Forumite
    JoeJester wrote: »
    It's now the 14th and I haven't received anything about a defence from EE. Next step?


    I quoted the wrong person by mistake earlier

    If you get a chance don't forget to chase CISAS asking if EE have requested an extension. They should say yes or no, follow it up with a quick email to confirm what they've said in the call, and then tomorrow when EE magically get an extension complain that they hadn't responded within 10 days.

    you're not being awkward with this, what EE have done which has lead to you raising this claim, is breach the UTCCR’s if this is the case as everything we have points to the fact they have.

    the text message they sent “the notification” omitted key information that would have informed your decision in terminating your contract, do you get more clarity from knowing that your increase is capped at RPI or capped at the lowest index price, personally I don’t but did they even mention that in the text message? No would that be key in your decision making process? You’d probably look into it would you?

    I’ll let you Google the punishment behind a breach in UTCCRs but needless to say EE will be doing whatever they can to wriggle out of anyone proving that they’ve breached UTCCRs, and at this point in time CISAS absolutely don’t want EE to stop using them for ADR they’re the cash cow at the moment.
  • MrJester
    MrJester Posts: 1,015 Forumite
    First Anniversary Combo Breaker
    Mikmonken wrote: »
    I quoted the wrong person by mistake earlier

    If you get a chance don't forget to chase CISAS asking if EE have requested an extension. They should say yes or no, follow it up with a quick email to confirm what they've said in the call, and then tomorrow when EE magically get an extension complain that they hadn't responded within 10 days.

    you're not being awkward with this, what EE have done which has lead to you raising this claim, is breach the UTCCR’s if this is the case as everything we have points to the fact they have.

    the text message they sent “the notification” omitted key information that would have informed your decision in terminating your contract, do you get more clarity from knowing that your increase is capped at RPI or capped at the lowest index price, personally I don’t but did they even mention that in the text message? No would that be key in your decision making process? You’d probably look into it would you?

    I’ll let you Google the punishment behind a breach in UTCCRs but needless to say EE will be doing whatever they can to wriggle out of anyone proving that they’ve breached UTCCRs, and at this point in time CISAS absolutely don’t want EE to stop using them for ADR they’re the cash cow at the moment.

    So this was the response I got this morming:
    We note that we have not received a Response in the above named case, and therefore we
    have proceeded to appoint an adjudicator for directions in this case.
    The parties are advised that, Miss Abigail Jennings has been appointed as adjudicator.
    The documents so far submitted are being forwarded to the adjudicator. The adjudicator
    may proceed to determine the dispute on the basis of the statement of claim documents
    only. Alternatively if the adjudicator sees fit, he/she may direct that the company may have a
    further extension of time within which to submit the defence to claim.
  • Mikmonken
    Mikmonken Posts: 371 Forumite
    JoeJester wrote: »
    So this was the response I got this morming:

    thats great news for you... looks like CISAS are starting to play ball, and not issue extensions willy nilly!!
  • Hi, just wondering if you this is where I should be posting if I am currently at CISAS stage but using the original price rise cancellation reason? EE march 2014 text message etc
  • Mikmonken
    Mikmonken Posts: 371 Forumite
    Hi, just wondering if you this is where I should be posting if I am currently at CISAS stage but using the original price rise cancellation reason? EE march 2014 text message etc

    Can you confirm it's about the change in terms and conditions (the text message) or the price rise (reclaiming all post price rises)

    or whether you are trying to cancel based on the price rise alone, they both have different approaches so you need to clarify to make sure that you get the right guidance.

    the info re this thread is aimed at the former text message.
  • Mikmonken wrote: »
    Can you confirm it's about the change in terms and conditions (the text message) or the price rise (reclaiming all post price rises)

    or whether you are trying to cancel based on the price rise alone, they both have different approaches so you need to clarify to make sure that you get the right guidance.

    the info re this thread is aimed at the former text message.

    Hi, I started the process back in april following the advice in the old thread with response to the text message. I ddn't get a response to my first email and due to personal reasons didn't follow up until earlier this month when I sent the 2nd template email. I got a response the following day from the execs office with the cut and past we've done nothing wrong, here's the details of CISAS.

    I filled the dispute with Cisas using RandomCurve's guidance (from the old thread) and received an email today stating:

    We acknowledge receipt of an application for adjudication by the customer, a copy of which is attached for the attention of the company.
    Please note that any further documents submitted after this date may lead to your application being restarted in order to give the company time to consider them.
    In accordance with the rules of the scheme, the company is now required to submit their response to the claim, which should be returned to us within 10 working days of receipt of this letter, that is, on or before 29/10/2014. The company should list all papers being submitted, and where possible submit their response by email. A copy of any defence to your case received from the company will be sent to you and you will be given the opportunity (5 working days) to make any comments about it which you wish to make.
    Please be advised that the company may contact you in order to negotiate a settlement of your claim. If they do that but no agreed settlement is reached they must still submit their defence to your claim by the due date above.
    The company may decide to settle your claim in full, ie to give you everything you are claiming in your application. Under these circumstances the company will notify us and we will write to tell you. We will close our file at that time because the adjudicator has no power to award any more than is claimed.
    We will contact you again in due course.

    So does that mean that Cisas will definitely adjucate or is it possible they will pull the prior judgement nonsense?

    Thanks
  • Mikmonken
    Mikmonken Posts: 371 Forumite
    So have you only just gone to CISAS or have they taken an age to reply?

    Anyway you'll get a response from EE in a form of a defence and then have 5 days to respond, if you take a look in the Price rise forum or have a look on fightmobileincreases.com templates are on there for comments on the defence. This forum was specifically set up to move away from the old forum so as to not confuse cases.
  • Mikmonken wrote: »
    So have you only just gone to CISAS or have they taken an age to reply?

    Anyway you'll get a response from EE in a form of a defence and then have 5 days to respond, if you take a look in the Price rise forum or have a look on fightmobileincreases.com templates are on there for comments on the defence. This forum was specifically set up to move away from the old forum so as to not confuse cases.

    Only just gone to Cisas got an almost instant response from them
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