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PCM Parking Charge at Hayes and Harlington Station

1246710

Comments

  • Fruitcake
    Fruitcake Posts: 58,110
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    You appeal each and every one. You complain to the landowner each and every time, but state this is the second (third etcetera) and each one constitutes a DPA breach which will result in further legal action being taken for each and every occurrence.
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  • Gooston
    Gooston Posts: 46 Forumite
    edited 15 February 2017 at 1:17PM
    UPDATE 2: Today I received a rejection of appeal letter for the first parking notice (07/02/2017). Along with a hilarious picture of the car and the no parking sign circled (which is so small and illegible - note, on BMPA it says that the sign says there is no grace period, that would mean a driver would get a ticket if they got out of their car to read the sign?) they have also not mentioned the 10 minute drop of period in their contract with Ballymore Group. The driver never left the car by the way.
    At the bottom it says the keeper has 2 options:

    1. Pay

    2. Appealing to the IAS

    I have read on here and PPP that appealing to IAS is pointless as I'm virtually guaranteed to lose. Where do I take it from here?

    EDIT: I just received this email from the MP's office as well

    Dear (my name)
    We are sorry that (the driver) received a ticket.
    We have received so many complaints about this company by innocent residents.
    John has been battling with the company about their signage and unfair practice.
    The issue is that part of the road is privately owned and therefore not even the council has jurisdiction over it. This did not affect us before because we had the turning point by the station which is not private. Now due to the Crossrail work, the turning point has been closed meaning we are entering and stopping on private land.
    John is actively working with Trading Standards and other consumer groups in regard to this and will continue to do so.
    He has written to the council to request that they put up their own signage to protect the residents, we are waiting for a response
    John has also been working with British Motorist Protection Association who have been advising people on this. There details are below should you wish to contact them

    BMPA
    The Old Courthouse
    Battle
    East Sussex
    TN33 0EX

    01424400475

    https://www.bmpa.eu

    [email protected]

    We are sorry that you have been caught by this practice.
    Rest assured, John is doing all he can on this and will continue to do so
    Best wishes Helen

    Office Manager for John McDonnell MP
  • Gooston
    Gooston Posts: 46 Forumite
    Also, does this point made by bargepole mean I couldn't use the fact that in the contract the landowner agrees to a 10 minutes drop off perioid (if it went to court)

    "Distinguishing your case from Beavis: The fact that Parking Eye paid £1,000 a week to operate in that case makes no difference at all, the arrangements between landowner and PPC are not relevant, as has been ruled by the higher courts. You need to concentrate on things that make your case substantially different, otherwise you're unlikely to win."
  • Coupon-mad
    Coupon-mad Posts: 130,105
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    edited 15 February 2017 at 8:47PM
    No Gooston, but I can see why you asked. Bargepole is merely saying the financial arrangements between landowner and their contractor mean nothing to a victim of a PCN scam.

    But the actual contract that sets out the terms under which PCM are authorised to issue PCNs is vital to your defence and shows them to be (allegedly) breaching that contract, breaching their Code of Practice in terms of not acting within the scope agreed by the landowner and issuing predatory/immediate PCNs with no grace period, obtaining data from the DVLA without reasonable cause...

    The list goes on. The contract allowing 10 mins to drop off in the area means exactly what it says and so there should be no instant PCNs. What are the landowners doing about their (alleged) rogue contractor, one wonders?

    But remember this is an ex-clamping firm, they used to think nothing of clamping in minutes and will not care (but are NOT to be paid!):

    http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1213482/Gone-30-seconds-How-cowboy-clampers-pounced-half-minute-claim-150-fine.html

    That example is Park Direct (a different ex-clamper firm) but it shows you how similar the current predatory ticketing is, no better than clamping (in fact worse when they get secret CCJs against people at old addresses, effectively 'credit clamping' people).

    It is the new highway robbery.
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  • Gooston
    Gooston Posts: 46 Forumite
    edited 16 February 2017 at 10:37AM
    Thank you for clearing that up Coupon-mad, I was doing some reading and just wound up getting myself confused.

    As for the ISA appeal offered by PCM (I agree with Coupon-mad, I do not see the point in giving the operator a "win" under their belt) I would a template on Parking Pranksters blog regarding alternative arrangements, is it okay to send this to PCM as they have rejected appeal for both parking notices.


    Dear Parking Control Management (UK) Ltd,

    You have suggested we use the non-standard appeals service offered by the IAS for parking notices issued for 07/02/2017 and 09/02/2017. This service does not meet the statutory requirements for an ADR Entity. These requirements are listed in Schedule 3 of The Alternative Dispute Resolution for Consumer Disputes Regulations 2015 and the requirements not met are as follows:

    5c (c) its ADR officials, the method of their appointment and the duration of their appointment;
    7(c) ensures that the parties may, within a reasonable period of time, comment on the information and documents provided under paragraph (b);
    13. The body may only refuse to deal with a domestic dispute or a cross-border dispute which it is competent to deal with on one of the following grounds—(a)-(f)
    4. The body has in place the following procedure in the event that an ADR official declares or is discovered to have a conflict of interest in relation to a domestic dispute or cross-border dispute—
    3(a) ensures that an ADR official possesses a general understanding of the law and the necessary knowledge and skills relating to the out-of-court or judicial resolution of consumer disputes, to be able to carry out his or her functions competently;


    5c fails because the names of the assessors are kept secret.

    7c fails because the operator is allowed to introduce new evidence which the motorist is not allowed to comment on

    13 fails because the service refuses to deal with disputes from vehicle keepers in Scotland. This is not one of the categories for which refusal is allowed

    4 fails because there is a fundamental conflict of interest. The service is masterminded by Will Hurley and John Davies. These two people are also directors of Gladstones Solicitors who file large numbers of claims on behalf of operators. They therefore have a financial interest in motorists failing appeals so they can then lure operators into filing a court claim.

    3(a) fails because the assessors do not understand parking related law or consumer law. I quote a recent decision which illustrates this, where the assessor decides that the requirements of the Protection of Freedoms Act 2012 do not have to be met for keeper liability to apply:

    Non-compliance with POFA 2012. From the same case[1], Moore-Bick LJ said that the provisions in the POFA strongly supported the conclusion that Parliament considered it to be in the public interest that parking charges of this kind should be recoverable.
    [1] ParkingEye v Beavis


    Obviously an appeals service where the assessors decide that the statutes do not apply, and misquote case law in this way, is not fit for purpose. It is of course ironic that the assessor is saying that the very existence of POFA 2012 is proof that the actual requirements of POFA 2012 can be ignored. No wonder the assessors do not wish their names to be known.

    The DVLA and the CTSI are well aware of the shortcomings of the IAS appeals service, which is currently being investigated by both of them. The legislation does give an ADR Entity six months to improve its processes and meet the legislation.

    I therefore believe that the IAS is not a fit body to use until both the DVLA and CTSI have finished their investigations, and the body has changed its processes to meet the legislation. I would be prepared to wait until this point in time if you agree.

    Failing that, I propose that instead of the IAS, we use an ADR Entity which does currently meet all the regulatory requirements right now. One such body is the Consumer Ombudsman available at this website http://www.consumer-ombudsman.org/

    I propose we use this body. Please note that practice directions state the court may impose sanctions if you unreasonably refuse to use a form of ADR, or fail to respond at all to an invitation to do so.

    Regards,

    (name, Squiggle)
  • I have also spoken to someone at BMPA and they said there is no need to appeal further and to just send a complaint to the DVLA, which course of action would you people recommend?
  • Gooston wrote: »
    I have also spoken to someone at BMPA and they said there is no need to appeal further and to just send a complaint to the DVLA, which course of action would you people recommend?


    shoot 'dem in the face !

    do you think the DVLA will "actually" do anything before 2020?
  • Haha that is very true, the person at BMPA was saying I could use a complaint to the DVLA as evidence if PCM do decide to take it further. Shall I just send that above letter to PCM as well as complaining to the DVLA?
  • yes , leave a papertrail , it won,t actually do anything apart from annoy the PPC that he may move on to a different target
  • Thank you, if anyone has time to read over the letter above (regarding Consumer Ombudsman request), please let me know if it is fit to send. I'll be looking to posting it tomorrow (I will add a section stating that a formal complaint with proof of contract with the landowner will be sent to the DVLA).
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