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Liverpool Airport Parking fine

Hi All I was wondering if anyone could offer some advice.

I received a letter from a company called Vehicle Control who it seems control the roads near Liverpool airport with their shinny CCTV Vans.

The reason for the fine is that we were 'stopping on a roadway where stopping is prohibited'. I have drafted a letter back explaining that we were stopped for a total of 34 seconds without taking the foot off the foot brake or exiting the vehicle, and that the reason we were stopped is that we had stopped 5 meters short of the barrier for the car park was to avoid obstruction to other road users while we located the pre-paid ticket for the car park, but I was wondering if anyone had any legal terminology that I can throw in as I am struggling to understand how a fine can be issued for stopping for less than a minute on a road that leads to a barrier?

Any help or advice would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks in advance

Vicky
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Comments

  • ManxRed
    ManxRed Posts: 3,530 Forumite
    A fine cannot be issued by a private company, but if you look more closely at their correspondence you will see they carefully avoid mentioning that it is a fine or penalty for this very reason.

    It is instead meant to trick you into inferring that it is some form of fine (and as you can see, it works).

    What you actually have is an invoice inviting you to settle a charge they have levied in respect of a breach of contract - a contract they will claim has been entered into by virtue of the driver reading the signs on site.

    Legally, you should let them know that you suspect that they do not have sufficient proprietary or occupational rights in the land to offer a contract in the first place, and that the sum requested is not representative of the landowner's actual losses incurred as a result of the driver's actions, and therefore unenforceable under Civil Law.

    And, as such, you are not going to pay.

    Forget the other stuff in your letter - the two points above will floor them.

    They will possibly take this as an appeal and reject it, but you are under no obligation to pay and they don't have much of a legal leg to stand on and what's more they know it.
    Je Suis Cecil.
  • Thanks for this. I have had another look at the paperwork and it doesn't mention the word 'fine' but it does say that it is a parking charge notice for breaking the car park terms and conditions of access to the privately operated roads at Liverpool John Lennon Airport. It also says that they are an approved operator and member of the British Parking Association operating in accordance with the 'code of practice for enforcement of parking on private land.

    Do you still think they don't have a leg to stand on because if so I will definitely be using your advice of refusing to pay instead of justifying the offense.
  • Hi Trickyvickz

    there are threads galore on the forum about this... check them out before you decide to enter into any correspondence or pay any monies.. the general concensus is ignore everything they say and do as its all hot air & bluster
  • Stroma
    Stroma Posts: 7,971
    Uniform Washer
    Forumite
    Thanks for this. I have had another look at the paperwork and it doesn't mention the word 'fine' but it does say that it is a parking charge notice for breaking the car park terms and conditions of access to the privately operated roads at Liverpool John Lennon Airport. It also says that they are an approved operator and member of the British Parking Association operating in accordance with the 'code of practice for enforcement of parking on private land.

    Do you still think they don't have a leg to stand on because if so I will definitely be using your advice of refusing to pay instead of justifying the offense.

    They don't do court, there is no loss to the parking company in the 34 seconds you were there. This is an illegal penalty ignore them
    When posting a parking issue on MSE do not reveal any information that may enable PPCs to identify you. They DO monitor the forum.
    We don't need the following to help you.
    Name, Address, PCN Number, Exact Date Of Incident, Date On Invoice, Reg Number, Vehicle Picture, The Time You Entered & Left Car Park, Or The Amount of Time You Overstayed.
    :beer: Anti Enforcement Hobbyist Member :beer:
  • ManxRed
    ManxRed Posts: 3,530 Forumite
    I still think they don't have a legal leg to stand on.

    How's that?

    Ignore them, the landowner has suffered no financial loss as a result of the driver's actions. They have no right to seek anything in excess of the actual loss suffered. Which is £0.00.

    They know this as well, which is why they will send plenty of threats, mentioning court cases, CCJs, Debt Collectors, Bailiffs, Credit Ratings, etc. All of it is tosh, and is designed to scare you into parting with your money.

    They don't do court.

    They'd lose.
    Je Suis Cecil.
  • ManxRed wrote: »
    I still think they don't have a legal leg to stand on.

    How's that?
    More reasons:

    The OP was never parked, nor entered a car park. So how do they issue a parking notice for what was dropping off/picking up (a legitimate activity on a public highway)?

    All they can claim is that you broke some sort of contract. As the only way you could have entered into a contract is to have managed to read and accept the words in small typeface on the lengthy notice which were displayed as you drove by it at 30mph (what, you mean you didn't see it?), then no contract was ever formed, so you cannot be in breach of it. Game over.

    VCS also know that they are not even in a position to form a contract anyway (a court of record has told them this), as they don't have sufficient interest in the land. Yet they are ignoring the court and continuing to send out demands for money that have absolutely no right to. Incredible, isn't it?
  • Guys_Dad
    Guys_Dad Posts: 11,025
    First Post Combo Breaker
    Forumite
    Or, if there was a parking notice nearby, you could tell them you had paused to read the notice so that you wouldn't incur a penalty.
  • Thanks everyone, sounds like these guys are hard work but don't worry, I don't intend to give them a penny!
  • fil_cad
    fil_cad Posts: 834
    Photogenic First Anniversary First Post
    Forumite
    Thanks everyone, sounds like these guys are hard work but don't worry, I don't intend to give them a penny!
    GOOD thats the way to deal with the scum. :money:
    PPCs say its carpark management, BPA say its raising standards..... we all know its just about raking in the revenue. :eek:
  • If anyone else has this kind of hastle, I found the following which is good to throw into the appeal letter:

    Where a term is considered unfair, it is therefore not binding:
    8.—(1) An unfair term in a contract concluded with a consumer by a seller or supplier shall not be binding on the consumer.
    In the case of a parking ticket, if a term is found to be unfair, then the parking company cannot enforce it.


    the Office of Fair Trading has issued guidance on its view of this legislation to provide guidance to courts about how the law should be interpreted. In this document they provide guidance for disproportionately high compensation.



    5.1 It is unfair to impose disproportionate sanctions for breach of contract. A requirement to pay more in compensation for a breach than a reasonable pre-estimate of the loss caused to the supplier is one kind of excessive penalty. Such a requirement will, in any case, normally be void to the extent that it amounts to a penalty under English common law.

    I would post the link if i could, but the website link is parkingcowboysdotcodotuk if anyone else can translate it.

    Thanks again everyone
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