PCN - parking in my own space

nasescoba1985 · 18 December 2017 at 2:51PM

Hey guys.

Cut a long story slightly short. I own my property in a small gated apartment development. The property mamagement director decided to implement a parking company ( CPM uk car park management ) last August because he was being petty and bitter that the residents were forming an association and complaining about the management of the complex + residents were using 2nd cars to park in visitors bays.

Anyway, we all received our own permits without any justification, apart from a rubbish forceful email stating we were now having to dispaly these permits. I recieved one which is for my own parking space. Now, I had no choice at this moment in time but to abide by the new "rules" and put my permit on my dashboard and on this particular occasion a few months down the line, I shut my door and the wind must of blew the permit off.

I received a PCN for parking in my own bloody space as my permit wasn't on the dashboard. Anyway I sent an appeal letter basically stating this is my own space and providing them with a copy of my permit , plus I explained the reasoning why my permit fell off. I also put in my letter, if this is rejected can they provide me with a popla code.

I just received a letter back today rejecting my appeal explaining they acknowledge my proof of permit but because I didn't display the permit properly, I need to pay the fine. They obviously have the photo evidence on the letter to. Obviously no way in a million years am I paying these !!!!s any sort of money to park in my own private parking space. I also appealed via IAS, as i felt that i can atleast justify in court if need be, that i went down every avenue to try and overturn this charge. What do I do now?

I had a quick look at the newbies thread which looks very helpful but there is a lot of detail on it so I'm not sure if my particular case is relevant and if I can get a template from someone so I can write back to these

Thank you

nasescoba1985 · 18 December 2017 at 11:04PM

Bump!!!

Sorry guys but any advice would be great. Do I ignore them from now ? The only problem is I obviously sent them my address when appealing as they needed this information so I could lodge an appeal. Do I write another letter threatening legal action? This is my own parking space and nowhere in my lease does it mention displaying permits of any kind.

Coupon-mad · 18 December 2017 at 11:17PM

They completely ignored my request for the popla code.

UKCPM are not in the BPA so they don't offer POPLA. They only 'offer' the IAS (don't go there).

Same as any IPC firm PCN, just ignore the letters until you get a LBC or Claim. UKCPM use Gladstones solicitors who shared Directors with the IPC Trade Body, who also 'run' the IAS, so you can see the conflict of interests there.

Read other Gladstones threads, you can find loads about UKCPM here, and see how to defend this when you get a court claim next year. We see posters here win 99% of the time, when they stick around and are fully-coached from defence, witness statement, evidence stages right to the hearing. Take heart, we win, and even if the odd person loses then there's no risk, they just pay about £175 and there's no effect on credit rating.

In the NEWBIES thread post #2, there's an example defence about 'own space' cases.

You should also read the threads by hairray and Daniel san, to see a fightback about a residential scheme. Come back in 2018 when you get the LBC from Gladstones, and read other cases to be ready.

nasescoba1985 · 19 December 2017 at 5:15AM

No problem thank you. Would you say the IAS are useless then? As that was my next route. My appeal letter and me providing them with my address details makes no difference ? I was worried that maybe I gave them to much information and this could ruin any chance of ignoring them. Would you say it's very unlikely that CPM will take me to court ? I just feel it's disgusting for not only trying to charge me for parking in my own space but when I put a reasonable response as to why it happened, they still show no compassion despite knowing full well it's my own private car space.

What will happen eventually ? Will the letters just stop ?

Regards

Daniel

claxtome · 19 December 2017 at 5:44AM

Would you say the IAS are useless then?

An appeal to IAS would be a waste of time and wouldn't help your case as no doubt it will be dismissed. As Coupon-Mad was hinting at.

Would you say it's very unlikely that CPM will take me to court?

An indication of how often they take people to court:
http://www.bmpa.eu/companydata/UK_Car_Park_Management.html

What will happen eventually? Will the letters just stop?

Read other threads on UKPCM from this forum to find out.
The letters will keep coming so file them until a LBC or claim comes as Coupon-mad said.

nasescoba1985 · 19 December 2017 at 8:09AM

Thanks mate. I was going to sent C one last strong letter to see if they will budge because I really can't be bothered with the hassle but at the same point time, I refuse to pay the charge: My drafted letter below so please tell me what you think

Dear Sir/Madam,

ref PCN - and the letter you rejected on behalf of my initial appeal. I tried to be contempt in explaining the circumstances as to why my permit fell off the dashboard, but you have proved to be very unreasonable in this matter.

I have also attached once again a photo copy of my permit which proves the car park space you ticketed is indeed my own private car park space so you know full well this is my own space that I own and have acknowledged this in you're rejection letter.

Whilst you may feel you have some authority to pursue me as the registered keeper, or issue me with a PCN for the parking space in question, in fact you have no legitimate authority to do so at all.

I am a leaseholder and owner of ---- n premises

which includes the roads and parking places as part of the areas that I am allowed unfettered use of. Which in question is my own private parking space allocated to me.

Unfettered meaning exactly that, ie no requirement to follow rules, conditions or other punitive terms for use of the areas which are absent from my lease.

As no parking constraints mentioned in my lease then I do have unfettered use with the right of peaceful enjoyment of the facilities within my housing complex.

Furthermore, you indicate that I have entered into a contract with you to make payment for the use of the parking outwith your terms and conditions.

I do not make an appeal on this point, as my doing so isn't required where you have no overriding rights on the land. In fact to emphasise the point, you cannot offer me something that I already have, nor even contract with me to do something you forbid.

Simple common-sense tells you that if I already have unfettered use of something written into a contract, then you cannot hijack that and slap me with a charge to use it as well.

In the case of you presenting a bill for parking without a permit where a permit is required (albeit it would have to be an agreed part of my lease anyway) then you cannot offer me parking rights for parking without a permit when you specifically require one to be shown.

This letter is not, nor is it to be construed as an appeal of any sort.
I simply explain why your harassment is an illegitimate and potentially illegal act and tell you that I require an immediate acknowledgement of the cancellation of my PCN. You may well be advised to take note of my car's registration number to avoid ticketing me at any time in the future.

I do not intend to continue this dialogue further and if you feel you have the legal right to take action against me then be advised it will be robustly defended. I can bring into my defence many recent cases where the judges presiding on such cases have found in favour of the defendant and even awarded a high costs settlement and I will use my lease as evidence of this which trumps any contract you have with the management company.

This letter is being sent by first class post with a proof of posting certificate to validate of a proper presumption of delivery.
It will be filed and brought into any defense in a court if needed.
This is my last letter as I cannot see any reason to write further and waste my time on a matter you have no authority to progress. I expect to receive a letter back from you to cancel the PCN with immediate affect and this I expect before the 14 day time frame , so please do not ignore this letter,

Yours sincerely

DoaM · 19 December 2017 at 8:27AM

Were your lease terms varied when the parking management and permits were brought in? Did you agree to these variation in terms? (It would have had to be done legally ... unless there's already a suitable term in the lease that allows the land owner to vary terms "for the benefit of the community").

nasescoba1985 · 19 December 2017 at 8:42AM

Hey; no alterations were made whatsoever to our lease terms: there is no mention in our lease of permits needing to be displayed or a parking company enforcing on our site: This was bought in by the management purely because they are bitter that we as tenants have formed our own association and are trying to gain control of the management: He decided to implement this parking company last August and we have signed nothing to accept this. He put a letter through our doors explaining that the company would start in August and we eventually got our permits. We have only been obliging with the permits for now purely because we are trying to overthrow the management. The problem is I have to get received this ticket. Rest assured I have not signed anything to allow theee these to change the terms of my lease

nasescoba1985 · 19 December 2017 at 9:46AM

Do I send this 2nd strong letter I have drafted and see where it gets me ? One of the guys that lives in the same complex got a similar charge and basically said his permit fell down the side. His charge got squashed. Surely if I can provide proof that they did this for someone else in the Sane complex , they haven't got a leg to stand on? I would rather get this cancelled and squashed rather than go down the legal route if I can. Obviously if I have no choice then I will because I certainly ain't paying it. How should I tackle this ?

DoaM · 19 December 2017 at 9:59AM

nasescoba1985 wrote: »

This was bought in by the management

Earlier you said Owner - now you're saying Management. Which is it?

Check your lease for other terms ... particularly regarding the Owner/Management Company authorised by the Owner being able to introduce measure for the benefit of the communal areas. They often try to use this as a work-around. (Such a clause is not designed for introducing schemes which vary the core terms of a lease, but DJ Bingo - if a claim got to court - can make the outcome uncertain).

Check also for terms regarding a Resident's Association and the right to self-manage.

Le_Kirk · 19 December 2017 at 10:29AM

ref PCN - and the letter you rejected on behalf of my initial appeal. I tried to be contempt...........

I think you might want to change this word before you send the letter!

PCN - parking in my own space

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