Does anyone here have an ideological objection to Solar?

Last night started pondering the emissions side of FITs a little deeper.

So using the example of Tokelau, I posted a while back:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-asia-20233754

With a loan from New Zealand, they've installed a zero-emissions electricity supply, which is 150% of current demand (to allow for future demand), and the cost is roughly 9 times their (previous) annual diesel bill.

I make that fully viable.

So the question is, when would that scheme have become viable without FITs? How many more years of emissions would have been created whilst we waited for the natural/economic roll out of PV? Only 3 years ago when the UK joined FITs panels were about 5 times more expensive than they are now. So whilst Germany has done most of the heavy lifting, the UK can still claim a small amount of those Tokelau CO2 savings.

Has FITs cost the planet any money - no it hasn't. To bring down prices, demand had to rise to allow manufacturing to rise to more economic levels. Somebody always had to buy the $5/watt panels, and somebody the $4.99/watt panels before we could get to the $1/watt and less panels.

The only difference is that the money was spent sooner, and by the richer nations further from the equator. Perhaps this is the 'ethical' part of this forum, since it's those nations that have enjoyed the CO2 party so much, and should now help with the morning clean up.

CO2 does not respect national boundaries, so we shouldn't be looking at UK FITs in isolation.

On a lighter and more cheerful note, PV prices now, today, mean that the poorer countries, with better weather, can now start to do the heavy lifting as viability for them has been reached so much sooner.

Also, some countries with supplies of cheap energy, are now moving to PV as costs have fallen:

http://www.guardian.co.uk/environment/2012/nov/26/saudi-arabia-solar-strategy?

Mart.

rogerblack wrote: »

We could have had a significantly larger investment in lowering the cost of panels, if they were installed in large arrays in appropriate places.

Solar panels as domestic roof decorations is a very labour intensive way of achieving solar electricity, compared to medium scale installations.

Anyway - apologies for dragging the thread off-topic - I shouldn't have initially posted.

Actually I think it's very interesting to discuss emissions and the macro side of all of this.

Regarding where and what to build. As you know I don't think large scale 'farms' are better than domestic due to the additional annual costs (land, insurance, security etc). I think they come out pretty much the same. And that's before the differing income levels. However, domestic installs involve the populace, and that helps to hammer home the AGW message.

However, agree completely about medium scale. Have said repeatedly that this is where I think the future is in the UK. Not sure at what point costs (per kWp installed) stop dropping, but would guess somewhere in the 20 to 50kWp range.

Obviously only guessing, but would have thought a medium scale install (such as a supermarket) could come in around £1k/kWp, and @ 1,000kWh's/kWp that means a return on investment equal to the electricity price (whatever that is 7, 8p?):-

20kWp = £20k = 20,000kWh's pa
@7p/kWh = £1.4k/£20k = 7%

assuming of course 100% consumption, that has to be borderline viable without subsidies.

I sincerely hope that the large companies keep rolling out PV and replace the momentum lost on domestic now.

Mart.

BigAunty wrote: »

Dear Mr/Mrs Energetic,

I am intending to buy a gift of a wireless bird camera nesting box. I would prefer to buy a system to power the camera that is solar based rather than buy rechargeable batteries.

This is the type of product I am thinking of buying

http://www.spycameracctv.com/spycamera/usb-receiver-cctv-wireless-infrared-day-night-hidden-spy-camera-system

It requires a 9v battery adapter to power the camera - is there a solar powered device that I can directly connect to the camera to do this, such as a panel, or must I buy a charger with separate rechargeable battery to do this? If so, can you recomnend a cheap product? thanks.

EDIT - I live in Scotland, if you don't think the lighting levels here will keep the battery sufficiently charged to power the camera, let me know.

Hi BigAunty

I'd guess that Energetic, being MCS registered, would be more involved with system which are large enough to power a house, something which is a little larger than needed for your requirements ...

To ensure that you have enough power for your wifi camera and the infrared lights you'll probably be looking at something like a 12V/12W panel, a 12V charge controller and a decent capacity deep cycle 12V battery then a 12V DC to 9V DC adaptor .... probable total cost would be ~£100 from somewhere like Maplins, depending on what offers they have available at the time.

HTH
Z

As comparisons go, I like comparing the PV FITs budget to 3.5 years of nuclear decommissioning, which consumes energy.

Or 1/4 of the HS2 rail works, which will allow people in 15 years time to commute from Birmingham to London (if they still want to) 30 mins quicker, by expending vast quantities of extra energy pushing air out of the way!

Mart.