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    • jordimp
    • By jordimp 6th Sep 17, 3:06 PM
    • 2Posts
    • 0Thanks
    jordimp
    Redundant after 2 years +/-1 day
    • #1
    • 6th Sep 17, 3:06 PM
    Redundant after 2 years +/-1 day 6th Sep 17 at 3:06 PM
    Hi,

    My fixed-term contract finishes exactly after 2 years. According to DWP, non-renewal of fixed-term-contract is equivalent in law to redundancy, so I wonder if I have a right to redundancy payment.

    To be precise, my contract started on 1 October 2015, and will end 30 September 2017. As I see it, this is exactly 2 years of continued work, but in the interview with HR, they tell me this is not 2 years, so no right to redundancy payment. Is it so? Can anyone give feedback on this, possibly with a reference that I can show to my employer?

    Thanks,
Page 1
    • Undervalued
    • By Undervalued 6th Sep 17, 3:33 PM
    • 3,177 Posts
    • 2,893 Thanks
    Undervalued
    • #2
    • 6th Sep 17, 3:33 PM
    • #2
    • 6th Sep 17, 3:33 PM
    Hi,

    My fixed-term contract finishes exactly after 2 years. According to DWP, non-renewal of fixed-term-contract is equivalent in law to redundancy, so I wonder if I have a right to redundancy payment.

    To be precise, my contract started on 1 October 2015, and will end 30 September 2017. As I see it, this is exactly 2 years of continued work, but in the interview with HR, they tell me this is not 2 years, so no right to redundancy payment. Is it so? Can anyone give feedback on this, possibly with a reference that I can show to my employer?

    Thanks,
    Originally posted by jordimp
    I think this is a moot point as they could simply get round any entitlement (if there is one) by dismissing you sooner. They would have to give you or pay you for your contractual notice. However, even if that is longer than the one week statutory notice entitlement, only the statutory one week period counts towards the two year qualifying threshold needed to claim unfair dismissal.

    In any case, by my reading of the dates, you have no redundancy entitlement.
    • Guest101
    • By Guest101 6th Sep 17, 4:05 PM
    • 15,128 Posts
    • 14,763 Thanks
    Guest101
    • #3
    • 6th Sep 17, 4:05 PM
    • #3
    • 6th Sep 17, 4:05 PM
    It's worth a claim, they may just pay out than argue as the amount is typically quite low
    • jordimp
    • By jordimp 6th Sep 17, 4:51 PM
    • 2 Posts
    • 0 Thanks
    jordimp
    • #4
    • 6th Sep 17, 4:51 PM
    • #4
    • 6th Sep 17, 4:51 PM
    Thank you both for your quick replies!

    Note that I am not asking about the fairness of the dismissal. My enquiry is about how is the time for the legal obligation for redundancy payment calculated. According to gov.uk, the obligation starts when one has worked "2 years or more" -- so how is the minimum of 2 years determined?

    If someone were employed from 1 January 2016 to 31 December 2017, in my view that would make 2 years of continued employment (this is my situation, shifted by 3 months). If the employer would say that the contract had to reach 1 January 2018, that in my view would be more than 2 years.

    I haven't been able to find any reference (DWP webpage, Acas,...) that discusses this, but it should be pretty clear when the minimum of 2 years is satisfied -- whether by calendar years or number of days or some other clear rule.

    Only when I know how this should be calculated according to the law, can I think of building a case to discuss with the employer. If there is no established way to calculate it, the employer could just say they calculate it differently and end of the story.
    • Guest101
    • By Guest101 6th Sep 17, 4:59 PM
    • 15,128 Posts
    • 14,763 Thanks
    Guest101
    • #5
    • 6th Sep 17, 4:59 PM
    • #5
    • 6th Sep 17, 4:59 PM
    Thank you both for your quick replies!

    Note that I am not asking about the fairness of the dismissal. My enquiry is about how is the time for the legal obligation for redundancy payment calculated. According to gov.uk, the obligation starts when one has worked "2 years or more" -- so how is the minimum of 2 years determined?

    If someone were employed from 1 January 2016 to 31 December 2017, in my view that would make 2 years of continued employment (this is my situation, shifted by 3 months). If the employer would say that the contract had to reach 1 January 2018, that in my view would be more than 2 years.

    I haven't been able to find any reference (DWP webpage, Acas,...) that discusses this, but it should be pretty clear when the minimum of 2 years is satisfied -- whether by calendar years or number of days or some other clear rule.

    Only when I know how this should be calculated according to the law, can I think of building a case to discuss with the employer. If there is no established way to calculate it, the employer could just say they calculate it differently and end of the story.
    Originally posted by jordimp

    according to this lot it's how you said it is: http://www.farrer.co.uk/how-we-help/employment-issues/worklife/worklife/dates/2015/3/less-than-two-years-continuous-employment-its-a-trap-/
    • Masomnia
    • By Masomnia 6th Sep 17, 7:01 PM
    • 17,101 Posts
    • 37,728 Thanks
    Masomnia
    • #6
    • 6th Sep 17, 7:01 PM
    • #6
    • 6th Sep 17, 7:01 PM
    As above you are entitled to up to 1.5 week's pay depending on your age.

    Agree with Undervalued that they could dismiss you earlier, so I'd probably wait to be dismissed at the end of the contract and then request the pay.
    “I could see that, if not actually disgruntled, he was far from being gruntled.” - P.G. Wodehouse
    • Undervalued
    • By Undervalued 7th Sep 17, 3:56 PM
    • 3,177 Posts
    • 2,893 Thanks
    Undervalued
    • #7
    • 7th Sep 17, 3:56 PM
    • #7
    • 7th Sep 17, 3:56 PM
    As above you are entitled to up to 1.5 week's pay depending on your age.

    Agree with Undervalued that they could dismiss you earlier, so I'd probably wait to be dismissed at the end of the contract and then request the pay.
    Originally posted by Masomnia
    That is the main point I was trying to make. Even if there is a redundancy entitlement they could easily avoid it by this method and there would be nothing you could do about it.

    Very likely they won't either realise or bother. If so you could then, after you leave, try and claim the redundancy pay if you think you have crossed the threshold. To some extent it may come down to whether you need the money or goodwill more!
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