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  • grahamc2003
    [text deleted by MSE Forum Team]

    There are plenty of chartered engineers who have commented on these heaters, and all agree with my view (no wonder, it's a perfectly obvious view). All electric heaters give out the same amount of heat for the same electricity. All heaters using daytime electricity are very expensive to run (and they all have the same ruinning costs for the same heating). They all heat by radiation and convection in different proportions, and some are insulated to allow a time delay of the major part of the heat release (e.g. storage heaters).

    People may like the look of these things over electric bar fires, and they may prefer to pay well over a grand for that look (given a good salesman and an ill-informed customer), but they have no advantages over a £5 value heater in terms of heating the room.

    Any electric heater you plug into the ring main (i.e. uses daytime electricity) will be horrific in terms of cost (except some types of heat pumps which work on completely different physics)
    Last edited by MSE Investigator; 24-07-2013 at 10:10 AM.
  • peacock17
    Your defence of their product as a user is fine with me, but its based on the same drivel they post - you read - you then reassert with no supporting evidence whatsoever. BTW I assume from the figure [s] of 45/50% split you are retired and at home all day with a room whole house temp of 20C. If your not in the house on an all day basis there is something wrong with your E7 usage.
    Originally posted by Richie-from-the-Boro
    I was only responding to the initial request on the thread, asking if anyone had experience of using Fischer heaters and as somebody who has used both old night storage in the past, which were not satisfactory and having changed to Fischer, found them to be very controllable and cheaper to run, just as they claim. Now this is my personal experience of actually using the heaters, have you used these heaters? I don't need any "evidence", the proof is in the great heating I've had for the past year.
    By the way, the greatest advantage here is that when I'm not at home I'm actually able to turn my room thermostat down and therefore not waste energy. Something I could never do with an E7 old night storage heater. Surely saving energy and paying less is the way forward. That's energy efficiency.
    Also may I add that the engineer who visited me was very informative and their selling methods were very acceptable. Again, I don't believe you have any experience of this either.
    Last edited by MSE Investigator; 24-07-2013 at 10:12 AM.
  • MAJS65
    [text deleted by MSE Forum Team]

    There are plenty of chartered engineers who have commented on these heaters, and all agree with my view (no wonder, it's a perfectly obvious view). All electric heaters give out the same amount of heat for the same electricity. All heaters using daytime electricity are very expensive to run (and they all have the same ruinning costs for the same heating). They all heat by radiation and convection in different proportions, and some are insulated to allow a time delay of the major part of the heat release (e.g. storage heaters).

    People may like the look of these things over electric bar fires, and they may prefer to pay well over a grand for that look (given a good salesman and an ill-informed customer), but they have no advantages over a £5 value heater in terms of heating the room.

    Any electric heater you plug into the ring main (i.e. uses daytime electricity) will be horrific in terms of cost (except some types of heat pumps which work on completely different physics)
    Originally posted by grahamc2003


    I've just come across this thread and had to make a comment. I have been in the electrical heating business for 15 years and one thing is very clear, 1kW does produce 1kW of heat, however it's also very clear how each kW of heat is delivered from source into the room is extremely important to determine the efficiency and comfort of the heating in the room. So to make a suggestion that a £5 heater would heat a room in the same way as a well engineered storage heater is nonsense.

    Let me give you an example, if your analogy is true, then surely if I placed 2 electric irons, 1kW each, on each side of a room, are you suggesting that it would heat the room in the same way as an efficient well designed storage heater like Fischer or similar others? Because I have personally come across these heaters and believe they are the way forward, considering in the past most people who had night storage heaters used to get rid of them as they never delivered the heat when you needed it, what good is that for anyone? I certainly believe the control system, the heat distribution from the heater into the room will reduce consumption, as the heat is delivered when you need it, where you need it. By doing so we can all use less energy and become more energy efficient. And taking up your point about heat pumps, surely the distribution of heat is important as they only work more efficiently if used in underfloor heating. Why? Because the heat is distributed evenly throughout the whole house. Try doing that with ordinary central heating radiators and tell me how efficient your heat pump will be.

    I write out of great experience in this field and I see all the problems associated with wrong type of systems in different locations. The average night storage heater at 3.5kW running for 1 hour at the so called "cheap rate" at night will cost you 21p per hour yet the low input storage heaters at 1.5kW running for 1 hour even at the higher rate of 10p will only cost you 15p an hour. However another factor is these low input heaters do not waste any heat, because they have a room thermostat and therefore you can deliver the heat in the room when you need it. However the storage heaters heat a room at times of the day when nobody's in it. Surely that's not efficient.

    So I personally think these low input storage heaters are far better than the old night storage heaters and I do know people who have personal experience of these heaters and have been very pleased. I hope I have enlightened the debate with some actual facts.
    Last edited by MSE Investigator; 24-07-2013 at 10:11 AM.
  • grahamc2003
    Yet another first post!

    Let me give you an example, if your analogy is true, then surely if I placed 2 electric irons, 1kW each, on each side of a room, are you suggesting that it would heat the room in the same way as an efficient well designed storage heater like Fischer or similar others?
    .
    Originally posted by MAJS65
    I didn't say or imply they'd heat in the same way - I said they'd both supply the same amount of heat. A 2kw £2000 heater filled with aluminium granules and pink jelly will supply the same amount of heat as 2xikw irons, or even 20x100w lightbulbs. The only differences will be each supplies a different ratio of radiant heat to convective heat, and possible a variable amount of delayed heat release. If you want mainly radiant heat, there are cheap heaters to do that. If you want mainly convected heat, there are cheap heaters to do that too. If you want a time delay, there are cheap heaters combined wit5h timers to do that too. There is absolutely nothing special about the particular ratio of radiant heat to convective heat, nor the time delay of these Fischer heaters. And even if there were, the main point is the amount of heat produced, and not the method, so the point is mainly moot anyway.

    The average night storage heater at 3.5kW running for 1 hour at the so called "cheap rate" at night will cost you 21p per hour yet the low input storage heaters at 1.5kW running for 1 hour even at the higher rate of 10p will only cost you 15p an hour.
    OMG! My new led costs about 1p for 10 hours. But it doesn't supply as much heat as something rated at 1.5kw, which in turn doesn't supply as much heat as something rated at 3.5kw.

    I hope I have enlightened the debate with some actual facts
    No you haven't. You have just demonstrated that you can fit heaters for 15 years without knowing much of the physics involved.
  • jalexa
    The price please..
    I hope I have enlightened the debate with some actual facts.
    Originally posted by MAJS65
    Why the reluctance to quote a price?
    • Richie-from-the-Boro
    • By Richie-from-the-Boro 7th Oct 11, 12:05 AM
    • 6,327 Posts
    • 4,759 Thanks
    Richie-from-the-Boro
    I've just come across this thread and had to make a comment. I have been in the electrical heating business for 15 years and one thing is very clear, 1kW does produce 1kW of heat, however it's also very clear how each kW of heat is delivered from source into the room is extremely important to determine the efficiency and comfort of the heating in the room. So to make a suggestion that a £5 heater would heat a room in the same way as a well engineered storage heater is nonsense.

    Let me give you an example, if your analogy is true, then surely if I placed 2 electric irons, 1kW each, on each side of a room, are you suggesting that it would heat the room in the same way as an efficient well designed storage heater like Fischer or similar others? Because I have personally come across these heaters and believe they are the way forward, considering in the past most people who had night storage heaters used to get rid of them as they never delivered the heat when you needed it, what good is that for anyone? I certainly believe the control system, the heat distribution from the heater into the room will reduce consumption, as the heat is delivered when you need it, where you need it. By doing so we can all use less energy and become more energy efficient. And taking up your point about heat pumps, surely the distribution of heat is important as they only work more efficiently if used in underfloor heating. Why? Because the heat is distributed evenly throughout the whole house. Try doing that with ordinary central heating radiators and tell me how efficient your heat pump will be.

    I write out of great experience in this field and I see all the problems associated with wrong type of systems in different locations. The average night storage heater at 3.5kW running for 1 hour at the so called "cheap rate" at night will cost you 21p per hour yet the low input storage heaters at 1.5kW running for 1 hour even at the higher rate of 10p will only cost you 15p an hour. However another factor is these low input heaters do not waste any heat, because they have a room thermostat and therefore you can deliver the heat in the room when you need it. However the storage heaters heat a room at times of the day when nobody's in it. Surely that's not efficient.

    So I personally think these low input storage heaters are far better than the old night storage heaters and I do know people who have personal experience of these heaters and have been very pleased. I hope I have enlightened the debate with some actual facts.
    Originally posted by MAJS65
    """ just come across this thread """ - that's not true, you last posted Today @ 9:27 PM using the nym peacock17. Now considering you claim to be a different poster you are making identical but still unsubstantiated emotional claims that peacock17 made days ago, you don't even have the intellect to find a different way to make your point.

    [text deleted by MSE Forum Team]

    """ the engineer who visited me was very informative """ - about what ?, both yourself and your very close and intimate friend and constant companion use tectonic repetition to say the same things, but tell this group nothing factual.

    Its simple junior school maths, if 50-60% could be saved on electricity the continents of the globe that were temperate or cold could and would change to using them. By that same school maths the up front extortionate cost of replacing E7 or E10 night store systems would be able to reach break even point .. .. and then a 50-60% profit so quickly the whole world would be using them.

    I wonder which new nym will make a first post saying """ just come across this thread """ but until then I leave both yourself and your alter ego with a nice picture - I'm sure you will like it.



    The pic under you nym [ newbies ] says we should give you a chance, something most of the people here support. However the board is also on record as saying ' Now to trolling as a concept. .... Personally, I've always found it a little sad that people choose to spend such a large proportion of their lives in this way but they do, and we have to deal with it." - MSE Forum '

    You are not I think a Troll, but I'm convinced you [ both the same person, maybe three counting the O/P Hotspot44 ] are 1st post spammers and that's also against board rules.

    Tell the people here how they are cheaper by 50-60% than E7, they are not even cheaper in spring & autumn when most E7 are switched off and people use supplementary heating anyway.
    Last edited by MSE Investigator; 24-07-2013 at 10:16 AM.
    • HalloweenJack
    • By HalloweenJack 7th Oct 11, 8:28 AM
    • 610 Posts
    • 204 Thanks
    HalloweenJack
    MAJS65

    how much do fischer units cost?
    • chris1973
    • By chris1973 7th Oct 11, 2:43 PM
    • 835 Posts
    • 812 Thanks
    chris1973
    There are some differences to the human perception to the heat produced by different electric / space heaters and this is often confused with how efficient they are.

    For example, radiant or halogen heaters pointed at 'you' will heat 'you' faster and more directly than a space or storage heater which first has to warm the air between you and it, before it begins to heat you. Obviously one will heat you quicker than the other. A Storage heater will first have to warm the internal bricks, then the air and then you, so an even slower effect, but the energy consumed and the heat eventually given out in respect of that initial energy consumption is essentially exactly the same across all of the examples

    Another example, last night I managed to heat myself using one bar of a Halogen Heater consuming approx 600W. However had that 600W heater have been positioned at the far end of the room, then I would have felt little, if any benefit from it whatsoever, as 600W was not enough output to heat the AIR in the room and then ME, but it was adequate enough to heat just me at a comfortable level (when sat 4 foot away from it) without first warming the air in the entire room in order to do it.

    This is also why you can sit outside a pub an a cold night and still feel the heat from the outside quartz heaters, because they are designed to heat people and not the air inbetween, but place a similarily rated convector heater in the beer garden and see how warm you get!, but the consumption of both convector and quartz heater is the same, its just down to the design of the heater, its intended application and the perception of the heat delivery in that application which differs.

    In short, the only thing that varies in relation to different types of heaters is the speed of delivery and your preception to how the heat feels on your body, depending on the design and how the heat is applied in a particular application, and whether the application intends on works on heating a person or the entire room as well as the person!.

    There are various detailed calculations which can be done which will work out how many KW of heat is required to heat a certain size of room from 12c ambient to 20c ambient. So if 6KW is required to heat a large room it will need heating appliances of 6KW output to do it, whether they are oil rads, storage heaters, wet radiators or a 3 x 2kw convectors. The physics of that wont change nor the room shrink just because you have a certain type of heater.

    For every 1000W taken from the mains, you will get 1000W out as heat. I dont know of anything which can create something from out of nothing......apart from my G/F
    Last edited by chris1973; 07-10-2011 at 3:07 PM.
    "Dont expect anybody else to support you, maybe you have a trust fund, maybe you have a wealthy spouse, but you never know when each one, might run out" - Mary Schmich
    • Ben84
    • By Ben84 7th Oct 11, 3:10 PM
    • 2,868 Posts
    • 3,522 Thanks
    Ben84
    Of course a kWh of electric produces a kWh of heat. However, good controls that choose how much the heater is charged in response to some variables and then good design to control when the charged heat is released can turn in to savings. Quite how these heaters achieve the claimed savings without making your house colder however is unclear. Their maths clearly show that less electric is being used - but then that means less heat in to the room.

    Time is the only factor I can see. Regular storage heaters may be charging up with lots of electric and dumping it out too fast so are cold by the time you get home, meaning you've paid for something you're not using, but if your problem is that the heat is lost while you're out, you can just get a regular electric heater and use that at any time of day and turn off the storage heater or have it charge for less time. Your heating would be better and you might even save if the storage heaters were wasting a lot of heat. These heaters appear to do this for you by combining storage with instant heat. I'm not finding it particularly innovative though and am not sure it would save electricity for everyone, only the people who have the problem that their storage heater releases the heat at times they don't need it.
    • chris1973
    • By chris1973 7th Oct 11, 3:25 PM
    • 835 Posts
    • 812 Thanks
    chris1973
    Regular storage heaters may be charging up with lots of electric and dumping it out too fast so are cold by the time you get home, meaning you've paid for something you're not using, but if your problem is that the heat is lost while you're out, you can just get a regular electric heater and use that at any time of day and turn off the storage heater or have it charge for less time
    I only really benefit personally from storage heaters at the Weekends and during holiday periods when i'm home from work. However I dont wish my property to get a damp problem from being left unheated or suffer burst pipes during the below minus days which have been common over the past two winters. In this effect, the background heat from the storage heaters 'charged' from cheap rate Electricity is useful in this respect, and far cheaper (and safer) than leaving an unattended electrical heater switched on at daytime rates.

    I currently pay 4.9p / kwh for offpeak electricity and 17.5p / kwh for Peak Electricity from Npower. Or at least I did before the 1st October increases, now I suspect I pay closer to 19p / kwh for peak and 5.5p / kwh for offpeak rate. Either way, I get just over 3 KW/H's of 'charged' E7 heat for the same cost of every 1 KW/h of peak heat, any heater running outside of E7 periods would have to be damn efficient to match that difference toe-to-toe.

    Proper use of the 'damper' control during charge periods and upon return also ensure that the stored heat from storage heaters is used to maximum efficiency. Whilst I agree that SH is not as controllable as 'real time' heat from GCH or a running electrical / gas/ paraffin heater, there are some people who make this even less so by leaving the damper open all night so most of the heat goes into the room, rather than the storage bricks, meaning less stored heat and so less output for later in the day!.

    I've yet to find any Electric heater which can match the cost of natural gas in running costs, but in an all Electric property that is, sadly, not an option.

    In an all electric property there are other options to be explored though, and I've found a happy medium by using paraffin to supplement the E7 heating during very cold periods, and now use a modern, safety standards approved paraffin 'fan' heater. The real cost of this is around 7p per KW, only slightly more than E7 and far less than Peak rate Electricity running ANY electric heater.

    Plus I buy paraffin in bulk, to maintain that 7p throughout the winter, largely making it immune from the hikes which we all know the energy suppliers will be inflicting on us again before spring.

    The heater also cost less to buy than most of these amazing pieces of electric heating technology you see appearing. Like I said before on other threads, this 'old fashioned' approach bringing back memories of heating used by generations before us, will, no doubt, only appeal to a small minority of people and I dont expect it to be embraced by a plug 'n' play society, but a combination of E7 for background heat and a 3.2KW Paraffin fueled fan heater for very cold nights rapidly suited me just fine, as did the reduction in consumption of peak rate electricity units.
    Last edited by chris1973; 07-10-2011 at 3:53 PM.
    "Dont expect anybody else to support you, maybe you have a trust fund, maybe you have a wealthy spouse, but you never know when each one, might run out" - Mary Schmich
  • grahamc2003
    . I'm not finding it particularly innovative though and am not sure it would save electricity for everyone, only the people who have the problem that their storage heater releases the heat at times they don't need it.
    Originally posted by Ben84
    It's likely that any form of electric peak rate heating will use less electricity than storage heaters (assuming they are both used sensibly and correctly). Saving electricity isn't the debate - the debate is saving cost. Since nightime e7 electricity costs about 40% odf daytime electricity (for me, I note for Chris it's much cheaper), you have to use a hell of a lot less daytime electricity to make it cheaper than night storage. (And of course, if you do use much less daytime electricity, then the average temp of your house will be much less).

    Also, someone said you have to wait a long time to get heat from a storgae heater. That is incorrect (with modern <20 year old ones). Turen the output up, and heat is convected within a minute of the storage heater switching on. The output control simply opens dampers which allow air to flow over the heating elements, so the heat is pretty quick if that's what you want. (Obviously, most want to charge up the heaters and release it later in the day, so the output is usually set 'Off' to enable that. Iirc, one of the Fischer spammers put this feature as an advantage of his heater over a storage heater, but both in fact do the same. (The difference is that a correctly wired storage heater only uses 'cheap' electricity, while a Fischer one uses full price electricity during the daytime, which will be the majority of its usage).

    For those who wish to be 'green' - shifting usage of electricity from a winter evening to the middle of the night is about the 'greenest' thing anyone of us can easily do, imv. Pity the government don't recognise this and force suppliers to charge retail prices as a markup on their wholesale price - nightime electricity would then be extremely cheap.
  • weelizzie
    Hi all - I got a quote for my (small 1 bed flat) from Fischer the other night, was just under £2k for supply and fitting of 2 heaters. They don't do supply only.

    I think it is a good product, but I was put off by the dogmatism of the seller who refused to countenance the idea that modern storage heaters might possibly be OK in some situations for some people. They repeatedly quote the 40% cheaper figure but couldn't say what it was 40% cheaper than. I was also unconvinced by the diagrams in their leaflet and think their claims of the heating properties are a bit selective.

    Will have to read the comments above in a bit more detail, but would be interested to hear people's experiences of modern storage heaters. Such a shame all these heating engineers have a product to push!!
    • chris1973
    • By chris1973 8th Oct 11, 6:59 PM
    • 835 Posts
    • 812 Thanks
    chris1973
    Sorry but i'd never take unbiased advice from any person involved with selling the particular product. I blame this on a childhood being brought up on constantly hearing Victor Kiam on the tv telling his customers how he liked the product he was selling so much he bought the company!.
    "Dont expect anybody else to support you, maybe you have a trust fund, maybe you have a wealthy spouse, but you never know when each one, might run out" - Mary Schmich
  • Hotspot44
    Thanks for all the info. All very interesting Have just seen one of these radiators on eBay! The seller bought it Oct 2010 for £1040.00!
    • Ben84
    • By Ben84 12th Oct 11, 10:06 PM
    • 2,868 Posts
    • 3,522 Thanks
    Ben84
    Thanks for all the info. All very interesting Have just seen one of these radiators on eBay! The seller bought it Oct 2010 for £1040.00!
    Originally posted by Hotspot44
    Alternatively, you could spend about £40 on a good oil filled radiator and the spare £1000 could be used to power it for a long time. I really wonder who buys such expensive heaters and how they can believe it makes sense. Even someone who doesn't do the maths must spot that the heater alone costs as much as the average whole house combined yearly gas+electric bill!
  • RachelD
    I'm looking to replace my electric storage heaters with something more efficient and controllable. I have a 3 storey house which is northeast facing and when the winds blow thet come straight from Siberia.

    I've read this thread with interest [text deleted by MSE Forum Team]. Gas isn't available to me.

    I've had a local reputable electrician quote around £2K to replace the rads but he says they would be updated radiators of a similar size and controls would be on the individual radiator. He advised against radiators with a fan which tops up during the day as the running cost would be high and a portable heater would be less costly if it needed a top up..

    My electricty costs app £1200 pa and that includes cooking etc.

    Can anyone tell me if E7 heaters are available with some sort of room thermostat and what they would advise me to buy? Thank you.
    Last edited by MSE Investigator; 02-07-2013 at 10:15 AM.
    if i had known then what i know now
    • john1
    • By john1 15th Feb 12, 10:15 PM
    • 372 Posts
    • 210 Thanks
    john1
    RachelD

    Re “Can anyone tell me if E7 heaters are available with some sort of room thermostat and what they would advise me to buy? Thank you.”




    A Storage heater from a reputable UK manufacturer, with “automatic” in its title will normally automatically adjusts the level of input charge to compensate for changing room temperature ie thermostatically controlled.


    I had a mix of manual and automatic up to last year and found the automatic to be best. And now have replaced / modified to all automatic. Acording to e-on energy tracker, my electric consumption has reduced over the last 13 months by 20% based upon actual meter readings.


    The Southampton based GDC Group, I have found to be a reputable manufacture /supply of storage heaters under the Dimplex, Unidar and Creda brands. They also supply electrical wholesalers under the Sector and Newelec brands.


    The Sector and Newlec models may differ outwardly cosmetically from the others but have many identical components and are less costly. I replaced my manual Dimplex with Sector automatics.


    Incidentally all new build dwellings with electric storage heating, must be automatic to conform with building regulations
    Last edited by john1; 15-02-2012 at 10:35 PM. Reason: energy tracker figure incorrecty entered now correct
    • Richie-from-the-Boro
    • By Richie-from-the-Boro 15th Feb 12, 11:33 PM
    • 6,327 Posts
    • 4,759 Thanks
    Richie-from-the-Boro
    All night store heaters on E7 have two knobs [usually] on the top -

    They are INPUT and OUTPUT

    - input - a thermostat level set by you heats [charges] the internal bricks to that set storage level
    - output - set by you by means of the other knob simply raises or lowers a metal flap on inside allowing more or less heat to escape
    - the heater will charge up during the night according to the level you manually set the input to in line with seasonal changes in weather

    The efficient way to use storage heaters in the winter is to have the storage set to maximum, and the damper [flap] set to closed. If you don't have enough stored heat you have insufficient storage - simple - put in extra storage of the cheap stuff.

    The benefit of automatic as john1 says is you don't have to guess what you need for the next day, usually a 'weather watcher' [bog standard thermometer] is put on an outside wall in the elements and your INPUT is adjusted during the night temperature according to its best guess.

    In the case of RachelD, I fail to see how replacing for £2,000 what I assume are old but efficient night store with new night store auto or manual will achieve much if any savings. More storage of the cheap stuff is the cost effective solution, others are :

    - better insulating
    - better KwH tariff / electronic bill / meter readings / direct debit / etc

    RachelD's consumption for a 3 bed 3 storey on all electric at £100pm month is high, but not overly excessive. £80pm for an all electric small two bed flat or house is not overly excessive. Overly excessive is determined by :

    - lifestyle
    - two baths per day + other stuff
    - lousy insulation
    - poor double glazing
    - lack of storage
    - excessive washing machine use during the day
    - poor lagging and cylinder size
    - retirement
    - illness and extra heat water acquirements
    - running a 'home bakery' etc

    Bottom Line - sufficient cheap STORED heat without the need to open a any damper is optimum - you don't have to use it all 365 days in the cycle, but you sure as heck need to have it there if you need it.
    Disclaimer : Everything I write on this forum is my opinion. I try to be an even-handed poster and accept that you at times may not agree with these opinions or how I choose to express them, this is not my problem. The Disabled : If years cannot be added to their lives, at least life can be added to their years - Alf Morris - ℜ
  • Makus
    Fischer storage heaters
    I've just had a visit from a Fischer salesman... I have to say he wasn't pushy at all and quoted a straight price without any messing around... So, I'm asking if anyone can help out with the claims made by the salesman.

    Currently we have an oil fired central heating system and it costs us approx. £2000 per year to run (and getting more expensive every time we fill up on oil), so we allocate £160 per month to cover the cost of oil but obviously we 90% of that between Oct - March. As it's so expensive the house is always colder than we would like so we are looking at alternatives.

    The Fischer salesman surveyed the house and reckoned that we'd need a 13.5KW system in total to heat the whole house (1 heater in each room essentially). He suggested that the Fischer heaters are only using electricity for about 15mins in every hour (because of the way they store and discharge heat, once at temperature). Therefore to run all the heaters in our house for 8 hours a day at 0.12/KW Hr would cost us £3.24 per day, so about £22.68 per week which could save us a staggering 75% on our fuel bills!...

    Okay, I'm not dumb and know that if something sounds too good to be true it usually is; but with oil prices going up and up and with a young family, we need a house that's warm at an affordable cost!

    The Fischer heaters are not cheap and I reckon it would take about 8 years to pay for itself at these kind of figures, less than that if oil goes up (which it will do), plus the fact that we'll probably need a new oil boiler within the next 8 years anyway, so if the figures are about right it's probably going to more like 5 or 6 years to pay for itself.

    So does anyone think that the claim of the heaters being on for 15mins in every hour is correct?... This seems to be the main saving and I'm a bit confused. I like the idea of controlling each room for its temperature and time of heating and I obviously love the saving if the claims are true. I realise that using oil we are comparing two completely different systems but if we save money on heating and are warmer in the process then great!

    I read that there's some scepticism about newbie posts being salesmen but can assure that I am a genuine poster and every one has to make their first post right?!

    Any thoughts anyone? Anyone had these heaters installed?
  • grahamc2003
    To maintain a temperature of a room at say 20C for a constant outside temp (say 5C) then you'll have to replace the heat lost by some form of heating. Say your room loses heat at a rate of 1kW. You'll have to supply heat at an average rate of 1kW. If you have a 1kW heater, then it will have to be on all the time. If you have a 2kW heater, controlled by a thermostat, it'll to be on 50% of the time - and likewise a 4kW heater will be on 25% of the time, a 10kW heater 10% of the time. So to answer your question, it's quite possible that a heater may be on just for 15 mins each hour. You can even arrange a heater being on for just 5 mins each hour, by having a more powerful heater.

    Doesn't have to be an expensive heater, any old electric heater controlled by a therostat will do the same. The running costs to maintain a constant temperature will be the same whatever the size or make of heater. Any 1kW heater on constantly will cost about 12p per hour, a 2kw heater will cost 24p/hr when on, but will be on for 50% of the time, so the cost/hr will be 12p etc etc.

    Any form of electric heating running on day rate electricity will be very expensive. If you want electric heating (and its zero maintenance) then go for storage heaters on economy 7, imo, the latter almost certainly cheaper than oil, especiallly if an old boiler.
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