Help - employer enforcing reimbursement agreement

Hi

My employer agreed to sponsor my degree and issued a course agreement stating reimbursement of costs if I leave the company within a year.

To make matters a bit complicated, the company was later acquired and I understand that under TUPE, all terms and conditions of employment are automatically transferred to the new company.

Following the completion of the acquisition, I queried the validity of the agreement with my manager over text messages and he clearly stated that it would not be enforced and they would not ask for it to be paid back and that it would not be included in my contract or file. I have kept a copy of this to say the least.

I have decided to resign and my manager accepted it. However, 24 hours later, another manager and himself have started asking questions about my course sponsorship letter and certificate as I would need to pay back based on the terms on the letter. Whilst I appreciate that I had previously agreed to it, my manager stated again that he does not think it should be enforced. I have asked for an exception or flexibility with the terms based on the acquisition and verbal agreements. When I asked if I should contact HR, I was told not to as would "sour" relationship. As I had a feeling that this might happen, I had already enquired with HR following the initial enquiry about my course. Long story short, I contacted CAB/ACAS and based on verbal agreement and texts, it would be considered legally binding. I was also asked if I was taking any leave during my notice period or adding to final pay as I should consider the latter to pay back the fees. I feel that both managers are putting financial pressure on me that would leave me with no pay when I leave.

According to the handbook/contract:
The organisation may deduct from any final pay all monies owing to it from the departing employee. This includes (but is not limited to):

Outstanding loans;

Wage advances;

Expenses advances; and

Holiday taken but not yet accrued.


The course agreement letter does not mention it is a "loan" but says "will sponsor your tuition fee". Does this make any difference?

I am objecting to any deductions from my final pay and given that my manager had stated that the terms should not and would not be enforced, I feel that I should dispute this further.

Any advice would be appreciated.

thank you.

Heston
«13

Comments

  • Did your manager have the authority to, effectively, write off the cost of the course?
  • heston2014
    heston2014 Posts: 208
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    I would have assumed he would have some input on the decision to some extent. The issue I have is that two managers are deciding my fate without following due diligence i.e. discussing options with HR. It was only when I challenged for written confirmation from HR that a meeting with HR emerged at last minute.
  • Les79
    Les79 Posts: 1,337 Forumite
    The thing I'm a bit skeptical about is the fact that only 1 component of the contract was modified. If, for example, the new employer had started paying you LESS or taken away some of your holiday entitlement or sick pay rights then you probably would have gone spare on them! So, whilst I may be wrong about how TUPE operate, I would assume that the existing contract would be transferred over in full and only modified if both parties agree.

    That being said, has the manager's message modified your contract here? Maybe, but maybe they were just being a bit clueless or offering an opinion...

    You may need to speak to ACAS/CAB again about this one to be honest. You do, on the face of it, have a fairly strong case though and if they make a deduction you may well need to take them to court/tribunal to recover the costs.
  • heston2014
    heston2014 Posts: 208
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    I believe that the text message has modified the agreement and there was also an element of 'ransom' in the context of 'I don't want you to leave so I might ask you to pay' clearly stated in the message.
    I am going to arrange an appointment with CAB as I need to show evidence of all the correspondences as based on the how the two managers have handled this issue on their own without proper due diligence and simply enforcing the letter also implies some form of 'bullying' me into financial loss. Whilst I appreciate the sponsorship and I had no intention of leaving at the time of the acquisition but circumstances have changed.
  • My initial thoughts were along the lines of Les79's.......

    You may find it's all in the managers wording....thinking & knowing are two, completely, different things.
  • Les79
    Les79 Posts: 1,337 Forumite
    heston2014 wrote: »
    I believe that the text message has modified the agreement and there was also an element of 'ransom' in the context of 'I don't want you to leave so I might ask you to pay' clearly stated in the message.
    I am going to arrange an appointment with CAB as I need to show evidence of all the correspondences as based on the how the two managers have handled this issue on their own without proper due diligence and simply enforcing the letter also implies some form of 'bullying' me into financial loss. Whilst I appreciate the sponsorship and I had no intention of leaving at the time of the acquisition but circumstances have changed.

    Well, this casts a bit of doubt in my mind (a neutral third party).

    How can a text message both modify an agreement and 'ransom' you over the same issue? It sort of seems like the manager was appeasing you in a way (keeping you with the company by telling you what you wanted to hear) more than actually modifying the contract. Maybe the manager is in for a harsh lesson here though!

    This whole situation doesn't sit right with me in that I think you are taking the biscuit a bit, BUT you may well have your house in order over the evidence. In that respect, I think you have a case and if a deduction is made you may have to take them to court armed with your evidence.

    Morally, I think you know what the answer is. I personally regularly get a letter from the Student Loan Company about the 30k+ that I owe them for my university course and I wish some company had paid for my education! It is fairly uncommon for an employer to do that, and to give them some of your life back in return is not as big a deal as you'd think. Give me the terms of your contract and I'd happily go above and beyond and even take a pay cut!
  • steampowered
    steampowered Posts: 6,176
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    What does the letter you signed actually say? Does it say you have to repeat the course fees if you leave within a certain period of time?

    If it does, I am very doubtful that text messages with your line manager would be a valid amendment of your employment contract.

    Your manager saying 'he didn't think the contract should be enforced' certainly is not a valid amendment. That statement makes it clear that it wasn't your manager's decision.

    I don't see how the acquisition is relevant to any of this.
  • heston2014
    heston2014 Posts: 208
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    Les79 wrote: »
    Well, this casts a bit of doubt in my mind (a neutral third party).

    How can a text message both modify an agreement and 'ransom' you over the same issue? It sort of seems like the manager was appeasing you in a way (keeping you with the company by telling you what you wanted to hear) more than actually modifying the contract. Maybe the manager is in for a harsh lesson here though!

    This whole situation doesn't sit right with me in that I think you are taking the biscuit a bit, BUT you may well have your house in order over the evidence. In that respect, I think you have a case and if a deduction is made you may have to take them to court armed with your evidence.

    Morally, I think you know what the answer is. I personally regularly get a letter from the Student Loan Company about the 30k+ that I owe them for my university course and I wish some company had paid for my education! It is fairly uncommon for an employer to do that, and to give them some of your life back in return is not as big a deal as you'd think. Give me the terms of your contract and I'd happily go above and beyond and even take a pay cut!
    You have a point however, the agreement was signed by my manager and in the text message, he clearly stated that "we would not ask for it back" and "it will not be in your contract of file". The initial query started of by me saying that I have a query regarding the course fees following the acquisition. I also had no intention of leaving at the time I raised the query to and I fully acknowledged that I agreed to the terms and was willing to accept my part of the agreement if and when i leave. However, things changed and to suddenly enforced an agreement because I had resigned after previously stating that it would not be enforced, I personally feel there is an element of spite. I never denied the fact that I agreed to the terms, the course fee fortunately does not amount to £30+ student loan and I was asking for flexibility with the terms if it could not be waived.
    The issue is the two managers were not prepared to consider my request and had not consulted with HR not until I challenged their decision.
    I had been with the company for 3 years without any career development courses to and whilst I am very grateful that they agreed to sponsor my course, like I said, I would have kept my end of the agreement but they decided to muddy the waters and this is where we are. The fact that they did not want me to contact HR, I am glad that I did as I would not have any chance to challenge this any further.

    Thanks for the responses. :-)
  • heston2014
    heston2014 Posts: 208
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    What does the letter you signed actually say? Does it say you have to repeat the course fees if you leave within a certain period of time?

    If it does, I am very doubtful that text messages with your line manager would be a valid amendment of your employment contract.

    Your manager saying 'he didn't think the contract should be enforced' certainly is not a valid amendment. That statement makes it clear that it wasn't your manager's decision.

    I don't see how the acquisition is relevant to any of this.
    The letter says pay x % within x and I acknowledged that.
    If the situation or should I say my resignation was handled better, this would not be an issue at all. I guess I am upset not because I had to pay because 3 years of my loyalty, hard work and commitment was devalued out of spite. It's not the first time that people were treated this way.
    To add, a former colleague was also sponsored at the same time as I was, unfortunately, they were made redundant and was offered a 'package' ahead of redundancy. They sought legal advice and they said that the course fee was never reimbursed or included in the redundancy.
    My course fees was around £2k, all I was asking for was flexibility. They made a decision ahead of HR and that's where my issue is. At least give fair consideration based on the fact that we had an acquisition, line manager who signed and agreed the letter also stated it would not and should not be enforced.

    Thanks.
  • Detroit
    Detroit Posts: 790 Forumite
    I doubt the text message will be sufficient to vary the contract. The company will say one manager made an error, they're sorry you were misinformed, but a text message is not an official company communication etc.

    However, do seek further specialist assistance, as the wording of the text, and custom and practice regarding the use of texting as communication in your company may be relevant.

    The extract from your contract refers to what they will recover directly from any final payment, rather than what they will recover at all, if that makes sense.

    That your course costs do not appear in the list, doesn't mean they are exempt from recovery, just not from your final pay without your consent.


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