Energy Nightmare - When you don't exist on the National Database?
I've got an energy situation that will give anyone a headache. In case anyone can shed light on what is now a desperate situation, here goes...
I moved into an (electric-only) flat in September 2015, and as of now - March 2017 - I've not been able to pay a single bill as nobody will admit to supplying me.
When I first moved in we were informed from the letting agents that Scottish Power were our supplier. Simple enough. Scottish Power denied this from the off - they said they had no record of supplying our property and that our meter number (the one physically printed on our meter) doesn't exist on the National Database.
After this, we went to our local energy distributor who confirmed to us Scottish Power were indeed our supplier, but our meter number is registered to a different flat down the hall at Number 3 (For reference, I live at No. 7. ). They provided us with the MPAN of our meter. At last, some acknowledgment that our meter exists. Around this time, we began receiving bills addressed to us at No. 7 "For the Supply of No. 3" through the post, addressed to a prior tenant. After much back and forth, Scottish Power told us to return them all to sender and we heard nothing further. Most of my afternoons at this point involved being put on hold at Scottish Power for over an hour (and then hung up on), promised call backs and engineer visits which never materialised, ignored letters, and so forth. We got no where.
After 7-8 months I went to the Energy Ombudsman. They carried out an investigation for several months and what they came up with threw extra spanners in the works. They came back to me with an entirely different meter number and MPAN and told me that I switched from Scottish Power to EDF Energy in May 2016. Which, for reference, I definitely did not do - I could not get any supplier to accept my meter as correct never mind initiate a switch between two. Worth noting that since 2015, I have received zero correspondence from any energy company (Neither SP or EDF).
And now, I approached EDF - they also confirmed that the number physically on my meter doesn't exist (same chat as Scottish Power) - but a shortened version, missing a couple of characters, is registered to No. 3 (assuming this is what the distributor found, too). I gave them the meter number which the Ombudsman say is mine and they currently have that registered in their system against No. 9 in the building - and wait for it - No. 9 switched from Scottish Power to EDF on that exact day in May 2016. They are actively billing No.9 with these details and won't accept us as their customer. They referred us straight back to Scottish Power.
For reference, on EDFs system the details appear as "2F9 (2/7) [rest of the address]" (Floor 2, Flat 9 - all addresses are styled like this in the building). They take at "9" as referring to the door number and, from they and I can gather, the 7 refers to some kind of plot number or other reference. This is where EDF believe Scottish Power have made some sort of mistake. They ensure me it absolutely refers to No. 9 and not my property (2F7).
Now, in terms of the Ombudsman's decision - they told me EDF are lying to me. In their words, I have no option but to be partially billed by Scottish Power until this fictional switch date and to then provide transfer meter readings and be continuously billed by EDF from that point - both under this incorrect meter number. I provided them with all evidence to the contrary but they told me very clearly their investigation is closed and they will not be pursing it further. They do not care when I say I did not switch and this is without doubt a cross-meter issue/erroneous transfer. Who switched me? Will I be unpredictably switched again? Nobody could tell me on what terms this happened, and EDF also disagreed with their conclusion and are unwilling to implement it. In the end I rejected the Ombudsman's decision.
Around this point I got a random visit from G4S who asked to see our meter as apparently - it didn't "match up with their records".
FYI, I have done a burns test and the meter in my flat is definitely recording my consumption, no questions asked. According to the Ombudsman, everything has been set up this way since the mid-90s so I don't know why I'm the first to see an issue.
Now, I'm currently at odds with EDF trying to get them to arrange a site visit even though they're adamant I'm not their problem (one advisor I talked to said my address didn't even exist and ended our chat). Scottish Power also wrote to my flat after I questioned the Ombudsman's decision to say they have exhausted their complaints process and won't be making any further investigation - and they still deny I was ever their customer in the first place. Nearly two years down the line I now have three potential meter numbers which are mine, two MPANs, two potential suppliers, no bill, and nobody willing to bill me either!
Advise welcome ...
I moved into an (electric-only) flat in September 2015, and as of now - March 2017 - I've not been able to pay a single bill as nobody will admit to supplying me.
When I first moved in we were informed from the letting agents that Scottish Power were our supplier. Simple enough. Scottish Power denied this from the off - they said they had no record of supplying our property and that our meter number (the one physically printed on our meter) doesn't exist on the National Database.
After this, we went to our local energy distributor who confirmed to us Scottish Power were indeed our supplier, but our meter number is registered to a different flat down the hall at Number 3 (For reference, I live at No. 7. ). They provided us with the MPAN of our meter. At last, some acknowledgment that our meter exists. Around this time, we began receiving bills addressed to us at No. 7 "For the Supply of No. 3" through the post, addressed to a prior tenant. After much back and forth, Scottish Power told us to return them all to sender and we heard nothing further. Most of my afternoons at this point involved being put on hold at Scottish Power for over an hour (and then hung up on), promised call backs and engineer visits which never materialised, ignored letters, and so forth. We got no where.
After 7-8 months I went to the Energy Ombudsman. They carried out an investigation for several months and what they came up with threw extra spanners in the works. They came back to me with an entirely different meter number and MPAN and told me that I switched from Scottish Power to EDF Energy in May 2016. Which, for reference, I definitely did not do - I could not get any supplier to accept my meter as correct never mind initiate a switch between two. Worth noting that since 2015, I have received zero correspondence from any energy company (Neither SP or EDF).
And now, I approached EDF - they also confirmed that the number physically on my meter doesn't exist (same chat as Scottish Power) - but a shortened version, missing a couple of characters, is registered to No. 3 (assuming this is what the distributor found, too). I gave them the meter number which the Ombudsman say is mine and they currently have that registered in their system against No. 9 in the building - and wait for it - No. 9 switched from Scottish Power to EDF on that exact day in May 2016. They are actively billing No.9 with these details and won't accept us as their customer. They referred us straight back to Scottish Power.
For reference, on EDFs system the details appear as "2F9 (2/7) [rest of the address]" (Floor 2, Flat 9 - all addresses are styled like this in the building). They take at "9" as referring to the door number and, from they and I can gather, the 7 refers to some kind of plot number or other reference. This is where EDF believe Scottish Power have made some sort of mistake. They ensure me it absolutely refers to No. 9 and not my property (2F7).
Now, in terms of the Ombudsman's decision - they told me EDF are lying to me. In their words, I have no option but to be partially billed by Scottish Power until this fictional switch date and to then provide transfer meter readings and be continuously billed by EDF from that point - both under this incorrect meter number. I provided them with all evidence to the contrary but they told me very clearly their investigation is closed and they will not be pursing it further. They do not care when I say I did not switch and this is without doubt a cross-meter issue/erroneous transfer. Who switched me? Will I be unpredictably switched again? Nobody could tell me on what terms this happened, and EDF also disagreed with their conclusion and are unwilling to implement it. In the end I rejected the Ombudsman's decision.
Around this point I got a random visit from G4S who asked to see our meter as apparently - it didn't "match up with their records".
FYI, I have done a burns test and the meter in my flat is definitely recording my consumption, no questions asked. According to the Ombudsman, everything has been set up this way since the mid-90s so I don't know why I'm the first to see an issue.
Now, I'm currently at odds with EDF trying to get them to arrange a site visit even though they're adamant I'm not their problem (one advisor I talked to said my address didn't even exist and ended our chat). Scottish Power also wrote to my flat after I questioned the Ombudsman's decision to say they have exhausted their complaints process and won't be making any further investigation - and they still deny I was ever their customer in the first place. Nearly two years down the line I now have three potential meter numbers which are mine, two MPANs, two potential suppliers, no bill, and nobody willing to bill me either!
Advise welcome ...
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Comments
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This is the type of spaghetti junction that occurs (all too often) when meters are incorrectly assigned to begin with. This is often the case on new build estates or converted houses.
It would seem that you may have to start speaking to your neighbours. Until everyone works out which meter is actually their meter, it will never get sorted. Especially with the high occupant turn-over of a flat.
Everyone needs to come together and test their meters.
Turning off the power to each flat, then using a high use item, such as a kettle in one flat at a time, each time checking the meter. The one that is registering use on a meter.....is the correct meter for that flat. Do this a few times to be sure. Go through each flat. It is a completer pain in the backside, but the only realistic way of sorting it. Make a list of flat numbers and meter numbers (and current meter reading). Contact the distributor with this new information.
Until the other occupants also realise there is an issue, the energy company will be reluctant to do anything.0 -
Thanks - Post edited to include more details. The problem being none of the other neighbours seem to be having issues. No. 3 are enjoying seamless billing with Scottish Power, and No.9 with EDF. I've done a burns test in the past and the meter in my cupboard is definitely recording my consumption.0
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But you need to check that the neighbours bills match the meter number on their meter.
That may be the issue.
The neighbour may be paying the for the use on their meter, but using your meter number, or some mess like that.
Like I said, these things can be a mess to sort.
Hence you have to go through it methodically.
Write down which flat has which meter and meter number after doing a burn test. Then each flat needs to check their bill correspondence and ensure the meter numbers match.0 -
In the meantime, I hope you've been saving some money for they day they actually do catch up with youNever under estimate the power of stupid people in large numbers0
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matelodave wrote: »In the meantime, I hope you've been saving some money for they day they actually do catch up with you
I think they can only bill for a maximum of two years. I would put away £80 pm then you would be covered for when finally sorted.0 -
Trying to interest other tenants may be near impossible,especially if they have been getting no bills! They will no doubt move if any Utility Co. looks like catching up with them.0
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Wow - Keep all the records of who you have spken to and when, and keep a monthly record of the meter's reading
Provided you have made efforts to find your supplier, the 'Back-Billing Agreement' will come into play when someone eventually does send a bill.
This agreement prevents any supplier who has failed to send out a bill for over a year, from billing any energy used prior to the last 12 months, and that 12 months runs back from the date that they did manage to send a bill
A lot of worry and running around, but even at this point in time you have gained 8 months of free energy with more to come0 -
I've got weekly meter readings since I moved in - setting aside the cash hasn't been the problem.
EDF contacted today and told me to "pick a supplier" - and if I want this to be EDF to let them know within 5 days and they'll set me up on the number on my meter no. (the one that doesn't exist) and start billing me - no mention of any back-billing.
It doesn't comfort me that the last 18 months are going to be, apparently, wiped clean - and whether this is the path of least resistance rather than one which would fully sort out the meter's on the floor (Because somebody's been supplying me for the last year and half!). As a 20 y/o who aims to buy eventually, I don't want to see anything appear on my credit report if someone down the line figures out this spaghetti junction. Especially when I've made substantial effort to pay what's due.0 -
So ... things have gotten more complicated (if that's possible). EDF retracted what I wrote above and have concluded they are not in the position to solve this. We don't exist on any supply database, and nobody can ever be our supplier due to this - end of. The neighbours were all checked out (of those who are EDF customers) and the details all tie, apparently. EDF have traced the issue back to an investigation carried out by Scottish Power at No. 3 several years ago where Scottish Power acknowledge numbers and "photos of meters" were crossed, but they "have no current intention to investigate or pursue this" despite fully acknowledging our predicament. Both parties have closed the issue and aren't helping further. The only last option I was told by EDF was contacting the distributor, yet again, and setting up our flat as a new supply and establish a new MPAN. However this is unlikely to be authorised due to the wrong MPANs currently flying around different databases against our flat (which the energy companies need to fix first!)
Unbelievable ...0 -
Hi Hdilie
Can't quite believe the hassle you have had to go through so far and not really fixed the issue for you. From what you have said it sounds like there was a crossed meters issue from when the flats have been built. The best thing to focus on identifying is the MPAN / Supply number for your flat. This number should never change, essentially the fingerprint for your flat.
What i suspect has happened, is that a logical disconnection has been raised incorrectly on the supply number for your flat, when the crossed meter issue was being investigated. If you can ask one of the power companies to check ECOES (the national database) to see if there is a logically disconnected supply for one of flats in your block. This could be registered to your flat number directly or one of your neighbours. (Your supply number could have had the address changed following the crossed meter investigation)
If this is the case you should then be able to approach the distribution company to set up a brand new supply number with this information.0
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