Who's house?

Keep_pedalling · 8 June 2015 at 12:59PM

Could this be resolved though a claim of ownership through adverse possession, assuming your mother is still residing in the house?

https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/adverse-possession-of-registered-land/practice-guide-4-adverse-possession-of-registered-land

I really think you need to take some legal advise on this.

izoomzoom · 8 June 2015 at 1:17PM

I know you said Aunt's will doesn't mention house, but who did she leave her estate to?

k66yla · 8 June 2015 at 1:22PM

My mum and dad divorced years ago and she lives in France. The past 6 months I've had my son staying in the house for security purposes as its been empty since my dad was killed. Perhaps I should just move in as it will save me paying rent.

Pricivius · 8 June 2015 at 1:40PM

This is tricky, as you have found out. There are a couple of points:

1. The house is registered to the Aunt. If we accept this, then it passed under her will when she died. It does not matter that she did not refer to it in her will - you don't need to mention all your possessions, although it helps. So... who were the beneficiaries? IF we accept it was her house for one moment, who inherited it? It may be that you have a cousin or someone who would be prepared to inherit it and then gift it to you, although there are a whole host of tax implications, but it is worth considering as it would certainly straighten the mess out...

2. If your parents divorced years ago and they thought they owned a house, what did they do with it on divorce? Was there a financial settlement that gave the house to your dad with a sum of money for your mum, or did they continue to own it together after divorce?

3. Have you read through the Land Registry entry fully? Are you sure there isn't a charge in your parents' names or some other reference to their interest in the property? Have you asked the Land Registry for all documents relating to the property, in case there is anything from the 1970s transfer? You can go to the Land Registry office and look at their file on the property, just in case.

k66yla · 8 June 2015 at 1:58PM

My mums aunt had a daughter, but I've had no contact with her at all.

I've a feeling that the solicitor holds the key to all these problems. I've managed to track down the name of the solicitor. I've found a listing for someone with the same name but not sure if its him. Sent an email but no response.

I have correspondence sent from my mums aunt to my dad while he was living in the property but no definitive answers to ownership. She was a bit eccentric, tales of Russian spies and other colourful stories. Though she did use stuff like that when she stood for election against Tony Benn in the 1960's. So perhaps she was'nt as strange as she made out....Sorry to digress.

Oh well perhaps give it another few years and I might have a final outcome for this property, thats if its not fallen down by then.

TBagpuss · 8 June 2015 at 2:00PM

Privicus is right - you do need to clarify who would own the property following your aunt's death.. Did she have any children or a spouse? did she leave a will?

Your mum is likely to need to make a formal statements, describing what happened and what was agreed between the three of them, and you may (on behalf of the estate) need to make an application under the Turst of Lands and Appointment of Trustees Act for a court to determine the ownership of the house, and in particular, whether your Aunt's estate owns it outright, or whether the estate holds as trustees for your parents and if so, in what proportions.

If the property is registered then any change of ownership would have had to be registered also, which suggest s to me that the documents your parents signed may not have been a change of ownership - possibly a declaration of trust instead.

See whether the local history society or local library can help you identify the name of the solicitors firm, which would assist the Law Society in trying to identif any sucessor. It may also be worth contacting other local solicitors and asking whether they remember the previous firm and whether they know if it was taken over or not - solicitors (particularly older firms) often have pretty low turnover of partners and staff - I can think of two people at my solicitors who have been there for over 35 years and could tell you which other forms were operating locally when they started, and which had recently closed or changed hands at that time.

k66yla · 8 June 2015 at 2:17PM

After doing searches all day a last attempt search has just thrown up the firm who bought out the solicitors my parents dealt with. So fingers crossed :-)

Land_Registry · 8 June 2015 at 4:05PM

k66yla - I would suggest that Pricivius' post is also the one to follow here as the registered title is in aunt's name and presumably she was registered as the owner pre-1970s .

The legal ownership rested with her and following her death would have formed part of her estate. As such it will have had to have been dealt with by an executor/administrator and if probate had not been applied for then this would be something you would need to consider now and presumably that would involve in some way her relatives.

Clearly much would depend on her beneficiaries as to whether they would play ball I suspect and hence the feeling that you need to unearth what happened in the 1970s but remains unregistered.

Unearthing anything may assist in understanding what happened and may be admissable in any legal action taken to try and secure the property. I assume that legal action is being considered if this route is being chosen unless you are attempting to unearth a very old Transfer of ownership to get the title updated but that may be fraught with complications as well simply because your mother is the only survivor.

Bagpuss may also be correct in pointing to a deed or declaration of trust or indeed some other arrangement where your father had permission to remain in the property

Any claim re adverse possession is likely to be complicated by such matters especially if consent was given by the aunt to live in the property. One of the essentials behind such a claim is that it was without such permission.

So any chosen route appears to be a complex one but is there any reason why you are not looking to take what appears to be the easiest one, namely the probate route with the aunt's executor/beneficiaries?

Mojisola · 8 June 2015 at 4:25PM

Land_Registry_representative wrote: »

The legal ownership rested with her and following her death would have formed part of her estate.

Any claim re adverse possession is likely to be complicated by such matters especially if consent was given by the aunt to live in the property. One of the essentials behind such a claim is that it was without such permission.

It doesn't sound as if the aunt's beneficiaries had any involvement in the property so they wouldn't have given their permission - does that reopen the possibility of adverse possession?

konark · 9 June 2015 at 1:51AM

You have possession of the property.
No-one else is claiming it as theirs.
Who cares whose name is on some Land Registry title , you have the keys and control of the house. Although you can't sell it you can rent it out.

In the long run some form of adverse possession is possible, but nowadays you must write to the people who are on the L.R title at their address after 10 years. That's not going to get an objection is it? The clock would only start after your father died because he had permission to live there , you do not, you are effectively squatting in a house that technically is not yours, and nobody else knows. Just wait the 12 years and claim your house by adverse possession.

Who's house?

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