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Parking Eye in Hospital

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  • Coupon-mad
    Coupon-mad Posts: 131,404 Forumite
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    I guess it was too late and dark at 11pm....

    If it was 11pm, why is Dee telling you that the rules were to register the Badge at Reception? The sign doesn't say that, it tells you about an unidentified 'security office' that you merely have to 'report to'.
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    Forum Home»Motoring»Parking Tickets Fines & Parking - read the NEWBIES THREAD
  • luke123456
    luke123456 Posts: 348 Forumite
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    Coupon-mad wrote: »
    If it was 11pm, why is Dee telling you that the rules were to register the Badge at Reception? The sign doesn't say that, it tells you about an unidentified 'security office' that you merely have to 'report to'.

    Thanks so much C-M!

    I appreciate all your time and effort to help me formulate a response here...

    It was 11 pm, the car entered at 22:50 and left at 23:56.
  • luke123456
    luke123456 Posts: 348 Forumite
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    Coupon-mad wrote: »

    9. why the NHS Trust does not cancel these fines immediately, if a Blue Badge is shown at appeal stage, given the fact that you hold records showing that I was attending the Hospital that day and that I meet the definition of disability under the Equality Act 2010?

    Regarding this point, the disabled driver did not actually attend for treatment, but i doubt she will access the hospital system to start checking if they attended the A&E at that time of night. The Disabled driver was actually waiting for someone in the car park.
  • Redx
    Redx Posts: 38,084 Forumite
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    edited 26 April 2017 at 9:28AM
    in that case use the relevant parts of the letter and adapt it, that person was still entitled to be there but bear in mind that the able bodied person in the vehicle should have followed the signs , if seen , and registered the vehicle at some "unknown" office

    the sign does not say that the disabled person has to have had an appointment (in this case just putting the BB on display in the vehicle was not good enough and nobody in that vehicle followed the car park rules on the sign)

    the devil is in the detail, do not lie but do get the valid points into your letter of complaint and rebuttal

    for example
    Originally Posted by Coupon-mad viewpost.gif

    9. why the NHS Trust does not cancel these fines immediately, if a Blue Badge is shown at appeal stage, given the fact that I meet the definition of disability under the Equality Act 2010?
    you are meant to be changing that "template" into one that fits the details , not blindly copying and pasting , so the point is that its easier to adapt a working draft instead of composing one entirely from scratch , so YES , make the appropriate changes
  • luke123456
    luke123456 Posts: 348 Forumite
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    Ok thanks Redx I will formulate a response to POPLA later today and upload here for your advice.

    Thanks so much
  • luke123456
    luke123456 Posts: 348 Forumite
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    I have replied to Dee, but also cc'd in PALS telling them they should be ashamed that she is sending out such fob-ff replies and if she choses not to respond to my points or to cancel the fine then I wish to escalate the complaint with PALS to their next stage.
  • luke123456
    luke123456 Posts: 348 Forumite
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    edited 4 May 2017 at 10:13AM
    Dee has replied and refused to cancel it. Please see below her response

    Regarding her response to (9) She states;
    Most appeals will be cancelled for the first offence where it can be proved that the badge was used by the authorised holder, which unfortunately is not the case in this instance.

    Does this mean I can ask the blue badge holder to write a letter stating that he/she was being used by them at the time and therefore Dee should cancel the PCN as this is a first offence....?
  • luke123456
    luke123456 Posts: 348 Forumite
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    edited 4 May 2017 at 10:13AM
    Dee's Response;

    I can advise that your parking charge was looked into and my response was not influenced by ParkingEye in anyway.

    Parking enforcement is not disallowed by the Government and the trust’s parking complies with all Government regulations. The signage around the site is also approved by the BPA (British Parking Association).

    The procedure to make all blue badge holders register their badges upon each visit was introduced in 2013 and was designed to tackle the misuse of blue badges. This system has proved very successful and has freed up blue badge bays for genuine blue badge holders.

    You have referred to the Freedom of Information Act. In order to respond to you quickly and not complicate the matter unduly, I have dealt with all your questions together and not referred your letter to our Freedom of Information team for response. However if you would prefer that your questions are dealt with under the Freedom of Information Act, please contact the team at rf.foi@nhs.net

    I have answered the rest of your questions below in bold.

    I regret to advise that I still stand by my original decision that the parking charge was issued correctly and that there are no grounds to cancel.

    I understand you still have a right of appeal via POPLA following your unsuccessful appeal to Parking Eye. If you wish to further contend your PCN I would advise you follow that route.

    Regards


    Her responses to my points which I sent her

    1. whether the alleged obligation to register a Blue Badge at reception was visible from the disabled bay used, at night? - Yes

    2. how you think supplying me with a copy of a previously unknown 'Blue Badge Rights & Responsibilities booklet' for my reference after the event is helpful? - This is a genuine document issued by the Government which advises the correct usage of a blue badge

    3. how you think a Blue Badge holder has any 'responsibility' to take specific extra steps to avoid 'fines', than able bodied motorists who have no such hoop to jump through? - It is the blue badge holders responsibility to use the badge appropriately. If the blue badge holder is the driver of the vehicle, then it is the drivers responsibility to read the parking signage provided. Please also refer to page 17 of the guidance in regards to places you need to check before parking.

    4. how a Blue Badge holder would guess they should not display the Badge on the dashboard, as is the case in any other situation on street or in car parks? - They need to read the parking signage displayed within any car park, whether at a hospital, train station, supermarket – no parking rules and regulations are the same at all sites. It is the drivers responsibility to read the signs. Please also refer to page 17 of the guidance in regards to places you need to check before parking

    5. as it was dark (11pm) how were we supposed to see the unlit signs? - There is sufficient lighting for signage to be read

    6. as it was 11pm, why does your generic reply tell me that the rules were to register the Badge at Reception? The sign doesn't say that (now that I have a photo taken in broad daylight). I see that it tells drivers about an unidentified 'security office' that you merely have to 'report to'. - The signs indicate that the blue badge must be taken to the main reception or out of hours to the security office. As the parking charge was issued at 11pm at night, the main access in and out of the hospital would be via security.

    7. is that the 'contract' I am alleged to have breached, a failure to (before seeking health care) report to 'security'...an office that has no signposting, nor does the sign set out any obligation to actually do anything when so 'reporting'? - The security office is clearly indicated

    8. in hours of darkness do able-bodied drivers also have to find their way to this 'security office'? Or is that just an extra hoop for the disabled people in society, many of whom visit Hospital and certainly do not have such rules at the forefront of our mind - you cannot enter the hospital out of hours without passing the security office. Registering provides you with 4 hours free parking. If you do not register you can park in a non-designated blue badge space and pay £3 per hour as per all other users. Please also refer to page 17 of the guidance in regards to places you need to check before parking

    9. why the NHS Trust does not cancel these fines immediately, if a Blue Badge is shown at appeal stage, given the fact that I meet the definition of disability under the Equality Act 2010? - Blue badge holders like able-bodied drivers are required to follow the rules and regulations which govern parking at any site. Most appeals will be cancelled for the first offence where it can be proved that the badge was used by the authorised holder, which unfortunately is not the case in this instance. Please also refer to page 17 of the guidance in regards to places you need to check before parking

    10. whether you or any staff members in the Car Parking 'team' (or anywhere on site) are in whole or in part, remunerated by ParkingEye? Or whether a payment is made towards running costs/dealing with complaints? If yes, how much is paid by ParkingEye and to fund what? -The trust receive no remuneration from Parking Eye and they provide a single parking attendant to assist with traffic management and making payments at the parking machines Monday to Friday 07:00 to 15:00. All other staff involved in parking at the Royal Free Hospital are employed by the trust.

    11. how many complaints have you had in the last calendar year about ParkingEye (whether fobbed off or not)? How many of that total were cancelled? – We do not keep data on the types of parking complaints received or record the outcome of such complaints other than the outcome letter to the complainant.

    12. how many were from disabled people showing Blue Badges? How many of that total were cancelled? – please refer to Q11
  • luke123456
    luke123456 Posts: 348 Forumite
    First Post First Anniversary Combo Breaker
    Do you think I should ask the blue badge holder to write a letter stating that he/she was being used by them at the time and therefore Dee should cancel the PCN as this is a first offence....?
  • Coupon-mad
    Coupon-mad Posts: 131,404 Forumite
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    edited 4 May 2017 at 8:29PM
    Not a letter - but basically yes, of course.

    Forward that email reply to the BB Holder and get them to duly forward the entire letter chain to Dee fro their own email account (to show her what it relates to without having to retype it). Add their proof that they were in the car (were they the person attending Hospital?). They need to either prove that - or at least confirm that - and attach the BB again, asking her to honour the promise that 'Most appeals will be cancelled for the first offence where it can be proved that the badge was used by the authorised holder'. Get them to write 'the Badge is mine and I was the person attending Hospital that night and by the way, you are wrong about the signs being adequately lit. We saw no such terms and we displayed by Badge in good faith and it WAS being used legitimately. Please now end this harassment and honour your promise in the email below that...blah blah...

    You have only another week or so to use the POPLA code but do this FIRST, immediately. Come back to talk POPLA in a week as long as the rejection letter date doesn't get past 28 days.
    PRIVATE 'PCN'? DON'T PAY BUT DON'T IGNORE IT (except N.Ireland).
    CLICK at the top of this/any page where it says:
    Forum Home»Motoring»Parking Tickets Fines & Parking - read the NEWBIES THREAD
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