Motorists, what to do about cyclists who constantly break the high way code???

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  • Nasqueron
    Nasqueron Posts: 8,626
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    kmb500 wrote: »
    The vehicle tax system being based on CO2 makes no sense and is out of line with every single other tax. Tax as a rule of thumb is based on how much money you have. Your income tax is determined by the value of your income. Council tax is determined by the value of your house. Vehicle tax should be determined by the value of your vehicle! Tax is meant to be that those who can afford it pay more. Why my £2000 car pays infinitely more tax than some brand new £20,000 cars... it makes no sense.

    VED is a pollution tax to discourage people from buying low MPG high polluting cars that harm our environment. My commuter bike cost £550 so I should pay much less tax than you. Income tax / NI is based on earnings yes, VAT isn't, neither is fuel duty and they are more comparable with VED. It would be better to tax fuel and scrap VED altogether but that still means bikes pay nothing!
    kmb500 wrote: »
    "you have confirmation bias, it's well known in car drivers - you see a car go through a red light, you dismiss it as an idiot"
    Why do you feel the need to insult me like this? It's true I rarely see it happen with cars. I see it a lot with bikes! I would feel just as spiteful to a car that did that. But I've maybe seen one car run a red light this year? Seen loads of bikes do it.
    That being said there are no traffic lights within a 10 mile radius of either my house or my workplace so I don't face it every day.

    Low mileage, no traffic lights etc. Confirmation bias isn't an insult, it's just a way humans are, same as the right wing people read the Daily Mail / Daily Express as they give the stories they want to hear (poor people are all benefit scroungers, all immigrants are thieves etc). You see a bike jump a red light, it reinforces your view all bikes jump red lights. You see a car do it and you think "what a numpty". I can 100% guarantee you that you are in an extremely low minority if you never see cars jump red lights, it happens all the time, just this morning I saw 2 vans waiting at a pedestrian crossing and went as soon as the pedestrians were off the road even though the light was red.
    kmb500 wrote: »
    There are no statistics on bike-caused accidents because bikes currently cannot be held accountable for any car crash. If a cyclist behaves erratically and forces a car to swerve and crash, then that's considered the fault of the driver and recorded as such. That's why I said we should BEGIN to consider cyclists as being liable for some car crashes.


    Utter garbage, the government collects them

    https://www.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/467465/rrcgb-2014.pdf

    Also see below:

    http://www.thetimes.co.uk/tto/public/cyclesafety/article3758677.ece

    https://www.theguardian.com/lifeandstyle/2009/dec/15/cycling-bike-accidents-study
  • jimjames
    jimjames Posts: 17,532
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    edited 18 October 2016 at 10:34AM
    kmb500 wrote: »
    "you have confirmation bias, it's well known in car drivers - you see a car go through a red light, you dismiss it as an idiot"
    Why do you feel the need to insult me like this? It's true I rarely see it happen with cars. I see it a lot with bikes! I would feel just as spiteful to a car that did that. But I've maybe seen one car run a red light this year? Seen loads of bikes do it.
    That being said there are no traffic lights within a 10 mile radius of either my house or my workplace so I don't face it every day.

    Interesting that originally it was "huge proportion" of cyclists yet now there are no traffic lights within 10 miles so it's not something seen every day. I drive through multiple sets of traffic lights every day and the number of cyclists jumping them is tiny. In fact I can't recall seeing any recently unlike cars jumping them. Unless you count getting off and walking across the junction as jumping them as some seem to think.

    I see far more dangerous driving from car and van drivers but I don't tar all car/van drivers the same way.
    kmb500 wrote: »
    Why my £2000 car pays infinitely more tax than some brand new £20,000 cars... it makes no sense.

    Despite all your anti-cyclist rants this is one aspect I do have some agreement with. However when you look at it on a technical, practical level it's hard to see how it could be implemented. Obviously a new car has a very defined list price and is used as such for company car taxation. Used is a different matter as price is hugely variable. For older cars it's even worse as there are only 2 bands. You can have a 1.6 litre Fiesta and pay the same VED as a 5 litre Mercedes which is far more polluting so it doesn't fit the green agenda either.

    I guess effectively the VED is based on value as most high polluting cars are also the high value ones with the exception of ones like Tesla. All changes as of next year anyway.
    Remember the saying: if it looks too good to be true it almost certainly is.
  • :rotfl: You publicly display your arrogant self importance and drive off contentedly ignorant.
    You're just a motorist. One of millions. You're nothing special.
    One day he will p**s off the wrong cyclist who will catch him at the next lights or traffic jam, lean into his open top car and 'express his displeasure'.

    Remember Bus W****rs in The Inbetweeners? :rotfl:
  • kmb500 wrote: »
    Visibility - sometimes down to no reflections, sometimes they don't have lights or not very powerful lights. Cyclists should be equipped with very powerful lights just as cars are. I think it's awful how many bikes there are that I do not see until I am 10m behind them....

    I suggest that you get your eyes or your car lights checked.

    Perhaps both
  • Funnily enough I have one now :D

    My main ambitition is to catch out that bus driver
    . His attitude toward cyclists is awful.

    Have you reported the incident(s) to the bus company?

    They should know which driver was driving which bus at a certain time and place.

    If they get more than one or two reports about an individual driver they may well take action, even if there is no hard evidence.
  • Nasqueron
    Nasqueron Posts: 8,626
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    I suggest that you get your eyes or your car lights checked.

    Perhaps both

    As a cyclist and driver I sort of agree with him on this - there are people who go out on bikes in all black clothing, no lights, no reflectors and you don't see them until 10m away
  • Strider590
    Strider590 Posts: 11,874 Forumite
    I cant agree that all cyclists who only cycle are clueless, I think that is going too far!!


    Cyclists who are drivers, who have recently moved to cycling, they are actually the worst for running lights.

    Try it yourself, get on a bike and ride toward a set of red lights and see how you feel about stopping. It's tricky because your head is saying "hey im not in a car, im a pedestrian and I don't need to stop, I can just take the footpath".

    When I started cycling after a 10+ year break, that was exactly what was in my mind the first time I rode up to a set of traffic lights, it felt stupid sitting there with cars when I could just get off, walk along the footpath and carry on.

    So when it comes to cyclist light jumping, the majority of them are also drivers.
    “I may not agree with you, but I will defend to the death your right to make an a** of yourself.”

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  • kmb500
    kmb500 Posts: 656
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    Nasqueron wrote: »
    VED is a pollution tax to discourage people from buying low MPG high polluting cars that harm our environment. My commuter bike cost £550 so I should pay much less tax than you. Income tax / NI is based on earnings yes, VAT isn't, neither is fuel duty and they are more comparable with VED. It would be better to tax fuel and scrap VED altogether but that still means bikes pay nothing!
    Well I don't think there should be any pollution tax at all, all tax should either be flat, or increase based on monetary value.
    Nasqueron wrote: »
    Low mileage, no traffic lights etc. Confirmation bias isn't an insult, it's just a way humans are, same as the right wing people read the Daily Mail / Daily Express as they give the stories they want to hear (poor people are all benefit scroungers, all immigrants are thieves etc). You see a bike jump a red light, it reinforces your view all bikes jump red lights. You see a car do it and you think "what a numpty". I can 100% guarantee you that you are in an extremely low minority if you never see cars jump red lights, it happens all the time, just this morning I saw 2 vans waiting at a pedestrian crossing and went as soon as the pedestrians were off the road even though the light was red.
    Maybe I am in a minority, but it's just what I see. And no I do not do "low mileage", I do ~15000/year.


    jimjames wrote: »
    Interesting that originally it was "huge proportion" of cyclists yet now there are no traffic lights within 10 miles so it's not something seen every day.
    Well that's what I mean, I do not encounter many cyclists but when I do, a much larger proportion of them are dangerous compared to cars.
    jimjames wrote: »
    Despite all your anti-cyclist rants this is one aspect I do have some agreement with. However when you look at it on a technical, practical level it's hard to see how it could be implemented. Obviously a new car has a very defined list price and is used as such for company car taxation. Used is a different matter as price is hugely variable. For older cars it's even worse as there are only 2 bands. You can have a 1.6 litre Fiesta and pay the same VED as a 5 litre Mercedes which is far more polluting so it doesn't fit the green agenda either.
    I guess effectively the VED is based on value as most high polluting cars are also the high value ones with the exception of ones like Tesla. All changes as of next year anyway.
    Oh really? What changes next year?
    And yeah it would be difficult to implement given that there are so many different cars. But the Valuation Office manages with houses, I'm sure it could be possible, if expensive. I mean very simply, you can set a level of expected depreciation, and just calculate it based on the list price new and how many years old the car is.


    Everything these days is to support the green agenda... or rather, to bankroll the big manufacturing corporations...
  • kmb500
    kmb500 Posts: 656
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    Strider590 wrote: »
    Cyclists who are drivers, who have recently moved to cycling, they are actually the worst for running lights.

    Try it yourself, get on a bike and ride toward a set of red lights and see how you feel about stopping. It's tricky because your head is saying "hey im not in a car, im a pedestrian and I don't need to stop, I can just take the footpath".

    When I started cycling after a 10+ year break, that was exactly what was in my mind the first time I rode up to a set of traffic lights, it felt stupid sitting there with cars when I could just get off, walk along the footpath and carry on.

    So when it comes to cyclist light jumping, the majority of them are also drivers.
    I have never cycled in traffic or at red lights, I dunno what it's like. I used to cycle all the time and when I started driving, I suddenly realised how invisible I could be and then prompted me to wear highly reflective jacket and use very good lights on my bike.
  • Nasqueron wrote: »
    As a cyclist and driver I sort of agree with him on this - there are people who go out on bikes in all black clothing, no lights, no reflectors and you don't see them until 10m away

    I partly agree with him too but I didn't want to miss an opportunity to have a bit of fun. :D
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