Green, ethical, energy issues in the news

Martyn1981 · 12 October 2017 at 8:17AM

I think this is important?

I've often mentioned how the World's efforts to bring down the cost of PV has benefited us by giving India an alternative to 'cheap' coal. But of course PV is not a singular solution.

So it's nice to see that their wind auction prices are now also coming in at (or below) the cost of coal, as the combination of both, whether on major grids, or micro-grids, gives a much more reliable package of generation, especially if storage is also included.

India’s Wind Energy Tariff Falls To Record Low In Latest Tender

[BTW the Indian price of R2.65/kWh works out at about $40/MWh.]

zeupater · 12 October 2017 at 12:35PM

Martyn1981 wrote: »

I think this is important?

I've often mentioned how the World's efforts to bring down the cost of PV has benefited us by giving India an alternative to 'cheap' coal. But of course PV is not a singular solution.

So it's nice to see that their wind auction prices are now also coming in at (or below) the cost of coal, as the combination of both, whether on major grids, or micro-grids, gives a much more reliable package of generation, especially if storage is also included.

India’s Wind Energy Tariff Falls To Record Low In Latest Tender

[BTW the Indian price of R2.65/kWh works out at about $40/MWh.]

Hi

The issue here is the impact on the cost to improve energy provision to outlying areas is huge in developing countries.

Without the need to massively reinforce grid infrastructure to supply energy from a centralised generation model, far more funding can be focussed on local generation which not only accelerates energy project delivery timescales, but also provides a massive boost to the living standards of so many 'rural poor'.

A big thumbs up to distributed generation & interlinked micro-grids ..

Z

Martyn1981 · 12 October 2017 at 1:48PM

Interesting to hear of a generation site with such a varied mix of generation and now storage.

Tesla battery to offer solar energy park ‘a lot more opportunity’ in the future

The 4MW Tesla battery will sit within a cluster of integrated clean technologies at Cenin Renewables’ Parc Stormy site in Bridgend, which hosts a 735kW solar installation, a low carbon cement facility, an anaerobic digestion plant and a wind turbine.

Martyn1981 · 16 October 2017 at 8:08AM

An item from the weekly carbon commentary I receive. It's about PV, but I've posted it here as I assume wind could also be part of the mix, if 'we' expand the idea:-

7, Microgrids. Sonnen, the European leader in small scale battery storage, said it would be putting batteries in all 3,000 homes in a new township in Arizona. The town will be able to ‘island’ itself from the public grid. Advanced controls will enable all the batteries and the PV on all roofs to operate as a virtual power plant with storage equivalent to 2 hours peak output of the PV system. Homeowners will trade power with each other. Sonnen threw out a challenge to its better known competitor. ‘This is the city of the future, a place where residents produce, store and share their energy. The fact that we were able to realise this project in Tesla’s home market territory demonstrates how we are surpassing Tesla when it comes to technology in America’s energy sector’. I think I might have used more cautious language when challenging Mr Musk.

also, it's nice to see 'healthy' competition at work.

Martyn1981 · 16 October 2017 at 8:15AM

Some news on P2G (power to gas) storage. teh idea here is to take excess leccy generation and store it in a very compact form such as hydrogen or methane. Typically it's been an expensive technology as the efficiency is low, but if improved, would be invaluable.

Biomethanation Reactor System Launched in U.S. for Power-to-Gas Testing

SoCalGas Power-to-Gas Project Selected by U.S. Department of Energy’s National Renewable Energy Laboratory to Receive Funding

Martyn1981 · 16 October 2017 at 1:18PM

You can teach old dogs new tricks.

This is what America's eco city of the future looks like

Ross is the mayor of Georgetown, population 65,000, and he has become a minor celebrity in environmental circles as a result of a pioneering decision in 2015 to get all the city’s electricity from renewable sources.

Georgetown’s location in oil-and-gas-centric Texas and Ross’s politics add to the strangeness of the tale. The mayor is a staunch Republican at a time when a Republican president – and his Environmental Protection Agency administrator – reject the scientific consensus on climate change and are trying to revive the declining coal industry.

GreatApe · 16 October 2017 at 4:20PM

Martyn1981 wrote: »

Some news on P2G (power to gas) storage. teh idea here is to take excess leccy generation and store it in a very compact form such as hydrogen or methane. Typically it's been an expensive technology as the efficiency is low, but if improved, would be invaluable.

Biomethanation Reactor System Launched in U.S. for Power-to-Gas Testing

SoCalGas Power-to-Gas Project Selected by U.S. Department of Energy’s National Renewable Energy Laboratory to Receive Funding

Electricity is a higher grade fuel you dont turn electricity into methane a lower grade fuel that is wasteful and stupid. You especially dont do it only when the wind is blowing and the sun is shining. Chemical complexes are large capital expensive projects that typically run 24/7 non stop.

GreatApe · 16 October 2017 at 4:53PM

Martyn1981 wrote: »

I think this is important?

I've often mentioned how the World's efforts to bring down the cost of PV has benefited us by giving India an alternative to 'cheap' coal. But of course PV is not a singular solution.

So it's nice to see that their wind auction prices are now also coming in at (or below) the cost of coal, as the combination of both, whether on major grids, or micro-grids, gives a much more reliable package of generation, especially if storage is also included.

India’s Wind Energy Tariff Falls To Record Low In Latest Tender

[BTW the Indian price of R2.65/kWh works out at about $40/MWh.]

It is not about cheap coal, It is about, it works coal power stations

There is no major country in the world that does not have dispatchable coal or gas or mostly both as part of their grid. (excluding the few small examples of countries with massive hydropower)

India is at 1400 TWh annual electricity consumption that is what China was at in 2001
Fast forward to 2016 ad China used 6150 TWh that means if India follows the same economic development as china did it will need to build out the infrastructure to produce 4750 TWh of additional electricity output

If you feel India is going to supply that 4750 TWh with solar and wind you are living on the moon!

If anything India is going to have a hard time meeting demand and has much less hydro-power potential. It will either have lower economic growth and develop more slowly or its going to need a huge amount of fossil fuel power to go from 1400 TWh annual eletricity use to 6150 TWh annual and it wont stop there they will go towards 10,000 TWh annual by 2050

They are going to go fossil fuel and maybe later displace it.

Martyn1981 · 16 October 2017 at 5:41PM

GreatApe wrote: »

Electricity is a higher grade fuel you dont turn electricity into methane a lower grade fuel that is wasteful and stupid. You especially dont do it only when the wind is blowing and the sun is shining. Chemical complexes are large capital expensive projects that typically run 24/7 non stop.

Wrong. We are talking about excess renewable leccy, that needs storing. Elsewhere you are claiming that large scale battery storage doesn't exist, yet here you are arguing against alternative forms of storage.

Hydrogen can be used with fuel cells to produce leccy on demand, hence the storage medium, and bio-methane can be burnt at a CCGT plant again when demand is high and RE supply is low. Co-locating a bio-methan CCGT plant with a LAES storage site can lift the efficiency of the LAES storage to over 80%, in fact it can go over 100% (which may seem odd at first).

These forms of storage (plus CAES) are neither wasteful nor stupid, assuming you've read up on them.

Martyn1981 · 16 October 2017 at 5:52PM

GreatApe wrote: »

It is not about cheap coal, It is about, it works coal power stations

There is no major country in the world that does not have dispatchable coal or gas or mostly both as part of their grid. (excluding the few small examples of countries with massive hydropower)

India is at 1400 TWh annual electricity consumption that is what China was at in 2001
Fast forward to 2016 ad China used 6150 TWh that means if India follows the same economic development as china did it will need to build out the infrastructure to produce 4750 TWh of additional electricity output

If you feel India is going to supply that 4750 TWh with solar and wind you are living on the moon!

If anything India is going to have a hard time meeting demand and has much less hydro-power potential. It will either have lower economic growth and develop more slowly or its going to need a huge amount of fossil fuel power to go from 1400 TWh annual eletricity use to 6150 TWh annual and it wont stop there they will go towards 10,000 TWh annual by 2050

They are going to go fossil fuel and maybe later displace it.

And yet once again the facts contradict you. In the BNEF New Energy Outlook 2017 report they had to amend their 2016 emissions estimate for India by 44%

BNEF: Coal to fade as cost of renewables falls even faster

BNEF’s report predicts that global emissions to peak in 2026 and then start to fall, as coal fired power starts to fizzle out in India and China. The former country’s speed in adopting solar as a mainstream power source led BNEF to adjust its outlook for India’s emissions down by 44% over the 2016 New Energy Outlook.

Can I just say, as you are 'explaining' how all of my posts are incorrect on multiple threads now, that I'm not expressing random personal opinions, but digesting and regurgitating many articles, reports, facts and figures I've found. That's why I can support them all.

I appreciate that renewables are not for everyone, but the supporting arguments and data that go along with it are now relatively bullet proof, as over the last 1 or 2 years the economics have now shifted, and the world is, believe it or not, actually changing - not necessarily because it's good, mostly 'for the money', but it is happening, and there's now way back now, economics always wins.

Green, ethical, energy issues in the news

Comments

Categories

Get our FREE Weekly email full of deals & guides - and it’s spam-free