Friend/housemate and rent arrears: huge mistake

Once again, thank you, everybody. All the advice really means a lot.

January2015 wrote: »

Lack of official looking post does not mean he didn't register the property as his address. Nowadays most things like this are paperless. I don't get paper bank statements, utility bills etc. It's difficult to tell these days whether someone has registered such accounts at a property because of this.

But because of this, I'm not sure how I would get access to prove he registered the property as his address.

datlex wrote: »

OP I am not sure what money you think you should get back by your own admission your had agreed to cover the payments when he could not. You don't appear to have indicated any agreement between you for repayment of this money should the housemate become able to pay.

In the none financial comedy program Two and a Half Men there is a snippet of financial advice in one episode. That is never lend money, if someone wants money and you can afford to give it do so if you chose to do so. Give without expectation of return. That money may be returned to you by the gift recipient however it should not be expected back. If it is returned then that is welcome.

I think that is a good way of working, never a lender be as the saying goes. Lending is not generous.

Sorry if I wasn't clear. The agreement was that I would cover the payments and he would pay back as soon as he started working. I wish I paid more attention to that episode of Two and a Half Men.

itchyfeet123 wrote: »

It doesn't sound like he has any intention of paying, and he knows there's nothing you can do about it.

I would give him an incentive to pay up. Make sure every single one of your mutual friends knows what happened. Every time you meet someone who knows him, tell them the story. Emphasise that he has been very deliberate about all this -- he didn't forget to pay you back, he didn't have good intentions that were interrupted by an unpredictable life event; he saw an opportunity to take advantage of someone who thought of him as a friend. I know it's embarrassing to admit that you were taken advantage of, but it might help you get your money back because 1) his friends, if they're not all like him, won't want someone like that in their lives, and he'll be eager to do the right thing in order not to become socially isolated, or 2) he'll be hearing about owing you money from more people than just you, which will be harder to ignore.

Yes, I let myself get into a situation about which I can do nothing about. I took your advice and let a few mutual friends know. They were shocked and couldn't understand why he's being evasive and hasn't sorted this out. A couple of them haven't seen or heard from him much recently, but two have. Maybe they'll bring it up with him.

FatVonD wrote: »

This is an oldie but goodie and you've got nothing to lose but you could try contacting him about the *£7,000* he owes you and hope he replies saying 'and it's not £7,000, it's £5,000'.

I did read this tip on another couple of threads and was tempted, but thought he'd probably see through it given how he's been. Since I have nothing to lose, I could try it next month.

BBH123 wrote: »

Having read your last thread where he states his parents didnt appreciate being contacted on their business email that is the achilles heel, probably there is a chance others are seeing it so its causes emabarassment.

Make a nuiscance of yourself on that email and hopefully they will get on to the son to sort it out.

Thanks for the tip. I was hesitant to email them again since they didn't reply, but I think you're right and I should just make a nuisance of myself.

Impecunia wrote: »

So sorry this has happened to you. It is a very common story though, you are not alone (google 'lending friends money', but don't go too far down the rabbit hole with the introspection; this man clearly has major issues around money and entitlement, so he could have targeted any of his acquaintance with a spare room and a reputation for being nice and easygoing). If he comes from a wealthy background, perhaps he feels entitled to a good lifestyle from the get-go, rather than having to start from the bottom up after graduation like everyone else.
The above advice is all good. Try a 360 degree approach, even if you have in mind all the time that you may not see this money again. Write to his parents (making it clear that you do not hold them responsible for the actual money). Tell all your friends and play the sympathy card (as you do need the money). Keep contacting him with your formal account of the rent owed per month, and keep any proof of his living there that you have. Always be painfully polite and stay on the right side of the law, but be a thorn in his side. Use his parents and friends to shame him (may be hard if he doesn't have a conscience, but worth a try).
Above all, never mix friends and money again. When you are comfortable yourself and have some spare cash, never lend and be very, very choosy if you ever decide to make a cash gift. Those words 'you're so generous' often translate as 'you mug', or just 'gimme'.
I hope you get something back, but, if not, budget carefully and put yourself first until you are out of this hole.

Thank you for your words, Impecunia. The introspection managed to get a firm grip on me and I'm trying to break myself free. You hit the nail on the head there about being entitled to a good lifestyle from the get-go, which would explain why it took him so long to get a job.

I will take on board your tip about the 360 degree approach and cover all the bases you and others mentioned. How often should I contact him? The last two times, months apart, just breaks into him getting aggressive despite me staying polite and calm.

In terms of proof of him having lived here, I have messages exchanged over that period which somewhat proves he lived here and one set directly asking for that months rent and him saying he will transfer it (when he was working). It seems the initial payment agreement and subsequent assurances were all done face to face and I have no record.

I am, for sure, never mixing friends and money ever again.

dfub wrote: »

I can't really help much other than chalk it up to experience.
Maybe in a few years from now when he matures a bit more he might have a pang or two of guilt about it and cough up the money (this does happen, could be 5+ years though). Then it's a like a bonus at that time but I'd write it off for now

Thanks for your thoughts. I will have to write it off for now as I just don't have any evidence. I've learnt the lesson the very hard way.

g_attrill wrote: »

It looks like the court fees will be £205 for a £3-5k claim so if you do decide to go the MCOL route you should do as much research as possible, and ensure your case is as good as you can get it.

What you really want is an accounting-style ledger of dates when the amounts were owed and the payments made, then references to a separate set of documentation that goes with each payment.

I'd think it would be best to concentrate on communications that shows he accepts/knows he should have been paying £350/month, rather than detailing his excuses, behaviour etc, ie. keep it factual and emotionless.

I have been trying to extract that from communications while he was moving out and since then. Apart from that one set exchanged I referred to above, he is being very careful not to say how much. I'll keep trying and keep it factual and emotionless.

Just a brief update: I got a knock on my door today and it was him with two other mutual friends who I haven't seen or been in touch with since he left. He said he came to take his car but that two of the tyres were flat and wanted to borrow my tyre pump. I realised he probably knew I had one as he may have seen me use it on my car on occasion while he was here, but I didn't see why I should do more favours and just said I don't have it any more and suggested he call AA, fit a spare or drive slowly to the nearest petrol station.

Because those two friends were nearby, I asked when he would start paying me back the £5k. He replied with the same excuses as before about not having any money with which to pay me back and how high his expenses are. I said, while I understand that, the fact remains he owes me that amount and the way he has said things about only storing his things here or plainly refusing to say how much he will pay back makes me doubt his intentions and leaves me unable to budget. By this time, the two friends walked away and he got argumentative saying he only came to day to take his car to sell and doesn't want to talk about the money, and walked away to his car and friends.

I knew I had to stay calm and realised nothing could be achieved here, but I wanted the two friends to know what he's been like. So I walked to where the three of them were and said to him that this is exactly what he does when this topic comes up: getting aggressive and abandoning the conversation. I explained that I really need the money, that him behaving in this obstructive way and not telling me what to expect puts me in an uncertain position, and that it is really unfair given how lenient I was on him. He then said he knows exactly what I'm doing and am trying to get him to sign or write down what he owes and accused me of being sneaky. I then said it is rich accusing me of being sneaky when he said he would return to discuss the money owed over the summer and over xmas and he never showed. He then reiterated he only came to sort his car and claimed he would come back later to discuss the money. Of course, he didn't say when and I knew pressing him on this wouldn't achieve anything. The two friends just lurked around quietly and I made eye contact with one of them who quietly said he doesn't want to get involved.



My question is: am I right in thinking that face-to-face conversations or phonecalls about this won't be helpful as there won't be a record of it? It is part of the reason I kept all discussions about this so far through some form of IM. As part of the 360 degree approach, keep everything in some form which can be logged?

It really has ruined my weekend as this reminder is pushing me down into the depths of heavy introspection again. I thought maybe posting an update will help me get back to the earlier stage of accepting I will never see this money again.