Appeal to upper tribunal - PIP

Having spoken with a legal expert at the MS society he thinks i have ground to request an appeal to upper tribunal after i lost my first hearing keeping me on standard level for care and mobility.
He is going to help me with a letter to make a request to appeal.

Has anyone done this? Could i please have your experiences?
Would i have to go to court again? Expert thinks i have very little risk of losing what i've already been awarded but i am still so very anxious.
Last bet : 26th Oct 2006:j Debt free 25th Feb 2008:j Living "my" dream:T
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  • kingfisherblue
    kingfisherblue Posts: 9,203
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    My understanding is that an Upper Tribunal is only allowed if there has been an error in law. However, you do not mention that an error in law has been made. Can you clarify please?
  • cantcope
    cantcope Posts: 1,886
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    Hi Kingfisherblue. He says i have grounds to appeal so i assume they've made an error of law.
    He mentioned that nowhere in the statement of reasons are they considering the constant pain i am in and the increase in pain doing everyday things that are in the descriptors causing. Meaning i cannot do them without significant increased pain or risk.

    They have also not taken into consideration reports after physical and cognitive assessments by my MS neuro and nurse, instead saying they think that the reports and letters were written after me telling them what to write to help my claim! I dont know if that's an error of law or just damn well rude and incorrectly presumptious! my neuro is not impressed and nor am i as it is not true.
    Last bet : 26th Oct 2006:j Debt free 25th Feb 2008:j Living "my" dream:T
  • BorisThomson
    BorisThomson Posts: 1,721
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    cantcope wrote: »
    Hi Kingfisherblue. He says i have grounds to appeal so i assume they've made an error of law.
    He mentioned that nowhere in the statement of reasons are they considering the constant pain i am in and the increase in pain doing everyday things that are in the descriptors causing. Meaning i cannot do them without significant increased pain or risk.

    They have also not taken into consideration reports after physical and cognitive assessments by my MS neuro and nurse, instead saying they think that the reports and letters were written after me telling them what to write to help my claim! I dont know if that's an error of law or just damn well rude and incorrectly presumptious! my neuro is not impressed and nor am i as it is not true.

    It's not an error of law, it's the conclusion they have drawn based on the balance of probabilities. You understandably don't agree with it but it's not rude for them to form that opinion.

    The panel will know what a medical report should look like, they're pretty standard in format. That's what a clinician should be submitting. The problem is where they try too hard to reference the descriptors, it comes across as staged and as if the claimant has asked them to state x, y and z.

    I hope you get the appropriate award, but you shouldn't take the findings of the panel personally. They're there to judge the evidence presented to them, and sometimes that can lead to results you do not expect.
  • Danday
    Danday Posts: 436 Forumite
    It's not an error of law, it's the conclusion they have drawn based on the balance of probabilities. You understandably don't agree with it but it's not rude for them to form that opinion.

    The panel will know what a medical report should look like, they're pretty standard in format. That's what a clinician should be submitting. The problem is where they try too hard to reference the descriptors, it comes across as staged and as if the claimant has asked them to state x, y and z.

    I hope you get the appropriate award, but you shouldn't take the findings of the panel personally. They're there to judge the evidence presented to them, and sometimes that can lead to results you do not expect.

    Absolutely. When my GP wrote his report for PIP I asked him to be careful that it didn't read as thought I had prompted him or suggested what he wrote.
    At the end it came over as a factual report which was also full of his opinions.
    Such as he could have said 'my patient has informed me that he cannot walk more than 20 metres' He wrote that because of the clinical findings he expected that it would be extremely difficult for me to walk more than 20 metres.
    He had no idea to be honest what the distance was but he worded it in such a way that in was his judgement based on evidence with no mention of me telling him what it was.
  • kingfisherblue
    kingfisherblue Posts: 9,203
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    As BorisThompson says, that is not an error in law. I think that perhaps you should ask the legal expert if they can explain where exactly an error in law has occurred.
  • poppy12345
    poppy12345 Posts: 17,844
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    Danday wrote: »
    Absolutely. When my GP wrote his report for PIP I asked him to be careful that it didn't read as thought I had prompted him or suggested what he wrote.
    At the end it came over as a factual report which was also full of his opinions.
    Such as he could have said 'my patient has informed me that he cannot walk more than 20 metres' He wrote that because of the clinical findings he expected that it would be extremely difficult for me to walk more than 20 metres.
    He had no idea to be honest what the distance was but he worded it in such a way that in was his judgement based on evidence with no mention of me telling him what it was.
    Even though you did tell your GP to write that. At least that what you stated in a previous post..unless of course it's another of your make believe stories...
  • poppy12345
    poppy12345 Posts: 17,844
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    The Comment in question is here in post #10
    http://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/showthread.php?t=5807473
  • Danday
    Danday Posts: 436 Forumite
    edited 23 March 2018 at 12:06AM
    poppy12345 wrote: »
    Even though you did tell your GP to write that. At least that what you stated in a previous post..unless of course it's another of your make believe stories...
    Of course I told him how each descriptor fitted me. As for the mobility part I simply told him that the maximum was 20 metres. Otherwise he would not have had a clue, no GP would. I think he based part of his opinion on the quantity and types of drugs that I am prescribed. Same with the pain clinic, no one goes there unless there is a difficult pain issue involved. To the extent of how the level of pain affects my life that can only come from me.
    So you see reports can be patient led but end up being medical reports based on the GP's assumptions and opinion.
    I presume that this is why there is so much of a discrepancy between the assessors reports and my GP's report. I suppose both are right to some extent
  • cantcope
    cantcope Posts: 1,886
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    i had no involvement with my neuro writing his letter or report other than he gave me a physical assessment once i could stand up and walk again with a frame after my relapse. He also never mentioned descriptors. he gave me an edss? score and reported on my balance, reflexes and strength. Neither were written for my appeal as this was 8 months AFTER my pip application. They were written for my file, i just took them with me to court.
    But anyway i dont think this will be part of the letter requesting permission to appeal anyway.
    i think he was going with the fact that the things they are saying i can do i cannot do without extreme pain. he sent a case file over from someone that won their upper tribunal based purely on this. That if you cant do it without severe pain then its simple, you cant do it.

    i will speak with the guy at ms society again today. I'm not a legal expert and this stuff muddles my already muddled anxious mind. I've changed my mind about doing this constantly every day just because i know how anxious its already making me.

    thanks for all of the helpful replies
    Last bet : 26th Oct 2006:j Debt free 25th Feb 2008:j Living "my" dream:T
  • pmlindyloo
    pmlindyloo Posts: 13,049
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    You are working with a legal expert from the MS society so you are getting the best advice possible in the circumstances.

    You have absolutely nothing to lose by appealing so I suggest you be guided by them.

    Error of law can cover many things and if your legal expert is saying you have a good case then why not put it in their hands?

    I am giving you a link that may go some way to reassure you. It is an old link but the information still stands:

    https://healthunlocked.com/fibromyalgia-action-uk/posts/130083431/appealing-to-the-upper-tribunal-against-a-first-tier-tribunal-decision.-go-get-em-tiger

    Go for it! Nothing ventured noting gained!
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