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VCS Parking - CCCF Letter Received - Defence helped needed

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  • Coupon-mad
    Coupon-mad Posts: 131,669 Forumite
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    I was wondering if it would be okay to submit this via e-mail rather than letter to the CCBC in Northampton. Is there any pressing reason to send via letter rather than e-mail?
    Yes you can attach it as a PDF to an email, with the claim number and 'defence attached' in the subject line.

    But not yet - because that defence only has stuff about signage.

    Are you not going to put them to proof of the driver and POFA compliance for holding you liable as registered keeper?

    And all defences v a PPC who don't own the land should challenge their standing & authority from the landowner.

    Is there any chance that your company actually had any implied right to park there, as a business on site? If so, say so.

    Is this claim filed by VCS themselves or by BW Legal? If the latter, read other BW Legal defences.

    Have they really only added £80 all told as extra costs, to 8 x £100 PCNs? That would be highly unusual, normally they use BW Legal and bung on 'indemnity costs if applicable' made up out of thin air - which must also be challenged in the defence.
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  • saarchy
    saarchy Posts: 56 Forumite
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    Thanks as always for the help.
    Coupon-mad wrote: »
    But not yet - because that defence only has stuff about signage.
    You're right. Signage is the only part I can explain in detail right now (with photographic evidence as per the Imgur gallery). I'd like to include more arguments in my defence to give it the best shot possible, but not sure what parts of the law are relevant to my specific case. Some suggestions would be hugely appreciated.
    Coupon-mad wrote: »
    Are you not going to put them to proof of the driver and POFA compliance for holding you liable as registered keeper?
    Yes indeed, but wasn't sure on the correct wording. Is there a suggested paragraph I can use? Or is it just something along the lines of 'you never proved I was the driver of this vehicle, so why am I here?' I did successfully challenge two tickets previously so not sure whether the whole 'prove I was the driver' would work...? Again, will take your guidance.

    Coupon-mad wrote: »
    And all defences v a PPC who don't own the land should challenge their standing & authority from the landowner.
    I'd like to challenge this indeed, but unsure how it would play out. Details below on longstanding issues with the landlord.
    Coupon-mad wrote: »
    Is there any chance that your company actually had any implied right to park there, as a business on site? If so, say so.
    Absolutely.

    There's 4 office buildings along this road. My company currently occupy two (2nd one was moved into some time in 2014/15), one is occupied by another tenant and the 4th is vacant. In fact, the 2 offices that border the specific part of the road in question are mine and the vacant lot. I'm guessing I should include this in my defence, but worth noting the below.

    The landlord and my company have had a longstanding issue on parking. We grew very quickly and had 300/400 staff working in an office with 100 (give or take)parking spaces. When the 2nd office was rented, the staff count almost doubled whilst the parking spaces grew by only 20 or 30. Hence, major parking issues and grievances from employees and the landlord. It was rumored that he wanted a massive sum to provide us with more parking and our company was refusing. Since VCS started putting up signs in early 2015, they've probably ticketed hundreds of people employed at the company. I'd imagine the landlord would be very much in favour of VCS winning this case should he become involved, so hesitant to do so. There's a potential point they could raise that the 4th office was vacant because of my companies issues with employee parking. This vacant office had empty parking right outside (which was blocked off by a gate) and the empty parking bays alongside the road in question (which were never parked in as per the defence) but the rest of the area would often be jammed with parked cars during working hours. Not exactly attractive to a potential company coming to view the vacant office.

    Now I don't think this has anything to do with my case, given I'm just an employee parking his car to go to work, but I'd hate for this to get raised in court and not have a response prepared.

    Should I still challenge their standing & authority from the landowner based on the above? More than happy to do so if you think that's best, and can provide further explanation on this situation if it helps.
    Coupon-mad wrote: »
    Is this claim filed by VCS themselves or by BW Legal? If the latter, read other BW Legal defences.

    I believe so. I received their 'Particulars of Claim' a few days ago and it's on their headed paper and signed for by a chap from their address. I'm happy to include the POC in the imgur gallery if you'd like a look?
    Coupon-mad wrote: »
    Have they really only added £80 all told as extra costs, to 8 x £100 PCNs? That would be highly unusual, normally they use BW Legal and bung on 'indemnity costs if applicable' made up out of thin air - which must also be challenged in the defence.
    Yep, I thought it was strange as well. Grand total is £880 across 8 tickets. I believe I'm the first person from my company they're actually taking to court as well, so wondering if they might be trying to set a precedent...? A lot of my old colleagues got tickets and hated the PPC BS, so I imagine quite a big % are unpaid/ignored!
  • saarchy
    saarchy Posts: 56 Forumite
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    I've redrafted my defence below if you would so kind as to provide feedback. I've included the bits you mentioned and sharpened up the signage to 1 succinct point. I've also included the bit about 2 previously appealed tickets as, whilst it might highlight their goodwill, it also demonstrates I made reasonable effort to understand parking regulations (or lack of) in the area.

    In the County Court Business Centre
    Claim Number: D0QZ924M
    BETWEEN:
    Vehicle Control Services Ltd (Claimant)
    vs
    Saarchy (Defendant)

    ___________________________________________________________________________
    Statement of Defence
    I am Saarchy of Address, Postcode defendant in this matter.
    It is admitted that the defendant was the registered keeper of the vehicle noted at the date of alleged breaches. However, the claimant has no cause of action against the defendant on the following grounds: -
    1. Notwithstanding that the claimant claims no right to pursue the defendant as the registered keeper under The Protection of Freedoms Act 2012 (PoFA 2012); the Claimant has failed to meet the conditions of the Act and has never acquired any right to pursue the Defendant in this capacity if they cannot identify the driver.
    2. It is denied that the Claimant served the required documents with statutory wording as prescribed under the POFA and as such, there can be no keeper liability in any event.
    3. The Claimant alleges that parking charges notices were given for “failure to adhere to the advertised terms and conditions” but no terms are given nor is any valid breach established.
    4. The place of the alleged breach is given as “development known as Globeside Business Park Infrastructure Marlow and Unit 3 Globeside Business Park” which contains many registered parcels of land as well as registered leaseholds on parts of these parcels of land, therefore strict proof is required as to the exact site of the breach.
    5. Vehicle Control Services Ltd are not the lawful occupier of any land around Globeside Business Park Infrastructure Marlow and Unit 3 Globeside Business Park. Absent a contract with the lawful occupier of the land being produced by the claimant, or a chain of contracts showing authorisation stemming from the lawful occupier, I have reasonable belief that they do not have authority to issue charges on this land in their own name and that they have no right to bring action regarding this claim.
    6. The Defendant was employed at the time of the alleged breaches at a company operating from leasehold properties at the Business Park which including parking allowances in adjacent parcels of land within the Business Park. These were signposted, including specific parking signs for the Defendant’s office near where parking charge notices were issued.
    7. If it does transpire that the claimant is entitled to issue charges on the private land, certain parking spaces do not and cannot include spaces which are covered under the leases without specific authority being proved to be held from the owners of leases for each of those spaces.
    8. The signage present in the area is woefully inadequate and at no point can be considered suitable for “Terms and Conditions” to be breached, or any form of contract whatsoever. This includes, but is not limited to, signage obstructed by hedgerow, ambiguously placed alongside parking bays, no parking signs on entry to Business Park etc.
    9. No attempt was made by the claimant to provide suitable information on parking regulations within this Business Park. This is despite the Defendant’s direct request on appeal and the subsequent cancellation of two notices (VC0314065A and VC03473506) issued on 2nd September 2014 and 26th September 2014. This is over a year before the time of the alleged breaches in this claim.
    10. At no point were any significant signage changes made between September 2014 and September 2016, or further information supplied to leaseholders on the Business Park, by Vehicle Control Services Ltd. As such, any further tickets can be considered erroneous given the implied parking permission by the Claimant on appeal, as well as the Defendant’s employer occupying adjacent office space.
    11. PoFA 2012 only allows the recovery of the parking charge stated on the Notice to Keeper and not court fees, damages, indemnity costs or legal representative’s costs.
    12. No contract, terms and conditions or sum payable were ever accepted by any driver.
    13. The claimant’s notices attempt to make a forbidding offer, which isn’t an offer at all, therefore no contract exists.
    14. The particulars of claim do not meet the requirements of Practice Direction 16 7.5 as there is nothing which specifies how the terms were breached. Indeed, the particulars of the claim are not clear and concise as is required by CPR 16.4 1(a).
    15. The claimant failed to include a copy of their written contract as per Practice Direction 16 7.3(1) and Practice Direction 7C 1.4(3A). No indication is given as to the Claimants contractual authority to operate there as required by the Claimants Trade Association's Code of Practice A7.1 which says that If you do not own the land on which you are carrying out parking management, you must have the written authorisation of the landowner (or their appointed agent). The written confirmation must be given before you can start operating on the land in question and give you the authority to carry out all the aspects of car park management for the site that you are responsible for. In particular, it must say that the landowner (or their appointed agent) requires you to keep to the Code of Practice and that you have the authority to pursue outstanding parking charges.
    16. The Defendant believes that his personal details have been obtained unlawfully by the Claimant and asks that the Court does not to assist the Claimant to benefit from a wrongdoing. (Ex turpi causa non oritur actio).
    The facts stated in this defence are true, to the best of my knowledge and belief.
    Signed,
    Saarchy
  • saarchy
    saarchy Posts: 56 Forumite
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    bump. Any feedback on my defence please? Want to try and get this submitted today if I can.
  • Coupon-mad
    Coupon-mad Posts: 131,669 Forumite
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    12. No contract, terms and conditions or sum payable were never accepted by any driver.

    Typo above.

    Apart from that, it looks like a decent and relevant defence, a breath of fresh air in fact. You have covered the points you will need to expand on later in your Witness Statement and evidence before the hearing in the Summer.
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  • saarchy
    saarchy Posts: 56 Forumite
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    Coupon-mad wrote: »
    Typo above.

    Apart from that, it looks like a decent and relevant defence, a breath of fresh air in fact. You have covered the points you will need to expand on later in your Witness Statement and evidence before the hearing in the Summer.

    Thank you. Amended and will e-mail in first thing.

    Should I send a copy to VCS directly via e-mail as well? They've had my address wrong all this time, but not sure if it's worth updating their records? I don't want them hassling me at my actual address....

    Will keep this thread updated as it progresses as well. Appreciate the help!
  • Lamilad
    Lamilad Posts: 1,412 Forumite
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    saarchy wrote: »
    Should I send a copy to VCS directly via e-mail as well?
    Yes, send it to litigation@vehiclecontrol.co.uk and copy in info@vehiclecontrol.co.uk to make sure they get it. Also copy in you own email address so you know (and can prove) it's been sent successfully. the subject is the claim No.
    saarchy wrote: »
    They've had my address wrong all this time, but not sure if it's worth updating their records? I don't want them hassling me at my actual address....
    You should give them your correct address and ensure your correct address is stated on any documents submitted.

    In court the judge may ask you to confirm your details....

    "Can you confirm you are 'Saarchy' of [address], [postcode]"

    You must not give inaccurate information to the court. if the address you give the court doesn't match what VCS have then they'll attack your credibility.

    There's going to be very important documentation exchanged over the coming weeks and months with response deadlines. Not sure why you'd want them going to and address you don't live at.

    Also if you address is not up to date on the DVLA database then you are committing an offence.
  • Loadsofchildren123
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    sorry if I'm too late.
    I would include that the other tickets were cancelled and rely on it as an admission that there was no contract and no claim against you.
    The other side will say it was a goodwill gesture, but you will have planted a seed in the judge's mind.
    Although a practising Solicitor, my posts here are NOT legal advice, but are personal opinion based on limited facts provided anonymously by forum users. I accept no liability for the accuracy of any such posts and users are advised that, if they wish to obtain formal legal advice specific to their case, they must seek instruct and pay a solicitor.
  • Loadsofchildren123
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    It's obviously not your main defence, but I would put it in:
    "On or about x date and x date the Claimant issued the Defendant's vehicle with parking charge notices, when it was parked in the same area. The Defendant complained to the Claimant that there had been no contract with the driver and the driver had not been parked in an area marked by any/sufficient signage. The Claimant agreed to cancel both notices. The Defendant relies on this as an admission by the Claimant that its signage was insufficient and displayed in such a manner that no contract can have been created between it and the driver.
    Although a practising Solicitor, my posts here are NOT legal advice, but are personal opinion based on limited facts provided anonymously by forum users. I accept no liability for the accuracy of any such posts and users are advised that, if they wish to obtain formal legal advice specific to their case, they must seek instruct and pay a solicitor.
  • Loadsofchildren123
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    If it's too late, bung it in your Witness Statement when you come to do that.
    Although a practising Solicitor, my posts here are NOT legal advice, but are personal opinion based on limited facts provided anonymously by forum users. I accept no liability for the accuracy of any such posts and users are advised that, if they wish to obtain formal legal advice specific to their case, they must seek instruct and pay a solicitor.
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