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  • FIRST POST
    • GumGardner
    • By GumGardner 17th Feb 17, 12:52 PM
    • 5Posts
    • 0Thanks
    GumGardner
    Bankrputcy from abroad
    • #1
    • 17th Feb 17, 12:52 PM
    Bankrputcy from abroad 17th Feb 17 at 12:52 PM
    Hi, I understand there is a 3 year limit to declaring bankruptcy when moving abroad, what happens past that point please?
Page 1
    • Guy-Brush
    • By Guy-Brush 17th Feb 17, 2:55 PM
    • 52 Posts
    • 9 Thanks
    Guy-Brush
    • #2
    • 17th Feb 17, 2:55 PM
    • #2
    • 17th Feb 17, 2:55 PM
    I read that if you have moved within the EU and a few selected other countries, the 2016 changes in legislation no longer allow you to go bankrupt. What you are supposed to do instead is beyond me! You have to go BR before moving.

    If you moved outside the EU then I think you do indeed still have 3 years in which to go BR. Again, after that point I do not know - I assume the onus is on the creditors to sell the debt to companies abroad if they want to, and if you cannot pay you'd have to go BR in your new country? (Just a guess).
  • National Debtline
    • #3
    • 17th Feb 17, 3:42 PM
    • #3
    • 17th Feb 17, 3:42 PM
    Hi GumGardener,


    To go bankrupt in the England or Wales it should really be classed as your centre of main interest. There is no absolute definition of this, but there are some good indicators. With regard to the '3 year rule' I think you are referring to the fact that you can make yourself bankrupt in England or Wales if you have lived or carried on a business in England or Wales at any time in the three years, before you apply for bankruptcy. However this is only applicable if you have moved to Denmark, Scotland, Northern Ireland, Gibraltar or outside of the European Union.


    So, in other words, if your centre of main interest is now in another EU country or if it has been longer than 3 years relating to the countries above, you would not be able to go bankrupt in England or Wales I am afraid. We do have a factsheet about this that may help you - https://www.nationaldebtline.org/EW/factsheets/Pages/bankruptcyandforeignissues/bankruptcyabroad.aspx#

    In terms of your other choices, it will depend on how much you owe, how long you have lived abroad and where you have moved to. Please post more details and we will try and help you further.


    Laura
    @natdebtline
    We work as money advisers for National Debtline and have specific permission from MSE to post to try to help those in debt. Read more information on National Debtline in MSE's Debt Problems: What to do and where to get help guide. If you find you're struggling with debt and need further help try our online advice tool My Money Steps
    • GumGardner
    • By GumGardner 17th Feb 17, 4:07 PM
    • 5 Posts
    • 0 Thanks
    GumGardner
    • #4
    • 17th Feb 17, 4:07 PM
    • #4
    • 17th Feb 17, 4:07 PM
    Dear Laura and Guy-B thank you for the reply,

    I owe about 54,000 to the HMRC - I live outside of the EU and bankruptcy doesn't exist here, I've been away since Sept 2013.

    I should have sorted this all right at the start and I am quite tight on finances here, so with the amount of interest and late fees I'm never going to be able to pay it off.

    Going S/e after military life, the first bill was 2.500 and the next over 10,000 and I just couldn't cope. Now I'm trying to sort out a mess.

    Really grateful for a suggestion to move forward
    • silvercar
    • By silvercar 17th Feb 17, 4:39 PM
    • 35,874 Posts
    • 151,073 Thanks
    silvercar
    • #5
    • 17th Feb 17, 4:39 PM
    • #5
    • 17th Feb 17, 4:39 PM
    hmrc are known for making people bankrupt themselves. I don't know if there is anything stopping them doing that if you are overseas, but it might be one option.
    • Guy-Brush
    • By Guy-Brush 18th Feb 17, 3:53 PM
    • 52 Posts
    • 9 Thanks
    Guy-Brush
    • #6
    • 18th Feb 17, 3:53 PM
    • #6
    • 18th Feb 17, 3:53 PM
    Since you live outside the EU you would have been able to declare bankruptcy back here, but now you've been gone for over 3 years (I assume your present country has been your 'centre of economic activity' for all that time) you cannot.

    So... Do the people you owe money to know where you are and have they ever tried to make contact or take legal action against you, at your current or previous (UK) address?

    I believe if you lie low for 6 years your UK debts will be written off - 'statute barred' - unless you have had a CCJ taken out against you, which can stay active and rear its ugly head if you return. Are you planning on returning?

    Since you are outside the EU it's unlikely any debt collection agencies are going to be coming after you. I believe the UK has an agreement with Canada that debt can be transferred, but otherwise I'm not so sure.
    • GumGardner
    • By GumGardner 18th Feb 17, 4:15 PM
    • 5 Posts
    • 0 Thanks
    GumGardner
    • #7
    • 18th Feb 17, 4:15 PM
    • #7
    • 18th Feb 17, 4:15 PM
    Hi, I don't think HMRC debt is bound by statute of limitations unfortunately. so since I'm past 3 years I'm not really sure what to do.
    They sent an email to my work - fortunately I got it before my colleagues saw
    • Guy-Brush
    • By Guy-Brush 19th Feb 17, 9:57 AM
    • 52 Posts
    • 9 Thanks
    Guy-Brush
    • #8
    • 19th Feb 17, 9:57 AM
    • #8
    • 19th Feb 17, 9:57 AM
    Do some Googling because I believe HMRC debt can be statute barred after 6 years. You can't go bankrupt by the sounds of it but since you are abroad I'm not sure what they can do? How did they get your work email address?!
    • debt doctor
    • By debt doctor 20th Feb 17, 1:00 PM
    • 4,114 Posts
    • 5,778 Thanks
    debt doctor
    • #9
    • 20th Feb 17, 1:00 PM
    • #9
    • 20th Feb 17, 1:00 PM
    Do some Googling because I believe HMRC debt can be statute barred after 6 years. You can't go bankrupt by the sounds of it but since you are abroad I'm not sure what they can do? How did they get your work email address?!
    Originally posted by Guy-Brush

    Hi,
    From the National Debtline factsheet on Time Barred debts;


    Income tax and VAT

    There is no time limit for recovery of tax, duty, or any related interest. However, National Insurance is not classed as a tax and is therefore subject to a six year limitation period.


    .....also tax credits and child benefit overpayments ARE covered by the Limitations Act (both administered by HMRC)


    DD
    Debt Doctor, Debt caseworker, Citizens' Advice Bureau .
    Impartial debt advice services: Citizens Advice Bureau Find your local CAB *** National Debtline - Tel: 0808 808 4000*** BSC No. 100 ***
  • National Debtline
    Hello again,


    So, the HMRC could still petition for your bankruptcy in the UK to enforce the debt. That could cause issues if you have any assets or if you return to the UK. It may also cause potential problems with your ability to continuing residing in the country you are in, depending where that is and if there are visa rules.


    The HMRC may also be able to transfer the debt to the country where you currently live, if they prove the debt in the UK (with a CCJ) and if there is a reciprocal agreement between the country where you live and the UK.


    It is a very difficult situation, and unfortunately, there is unlikely to be an easy answer. You could try and make a payment offer to deal with the debt, it can be tricky from abroad because of the currency conversion rate on a SOA, but if you were to approach them and make an offer and give them an alternative way to communicate with you, it may stop them emailing your work.


    Laura
    @natdebtline
    We work as money advisers for National Debtline and have specific permission from MSE to post to try to help those in debt. Read more information on National Debtline in MSE's Debt Problems: What to do and where to get help guide. If you find you're struggling with debt and need further help try our online advice tool My Money Steps
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