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    • fumin37
    • By fumin37 7th Oct 17, 6:09 PM
    • 55Posts
    • 11Thanks
    fumin37
    Esa hell ..desperate for feedback and advice anyone please :-)
    • #1
    • 7th Oct 17, 6:09 PM
    Esa hell ..desperate for feedback and advice anyone please :-) 7th Oct 17 at 6:09 PM
    Hi ...i have posted this on anothe forum but not getting the advice im looking for due to it being the weekend ..someone kindly gave me tbe link for here ..so here goes!
    I applied for ESA last year in November 2016 due to severersl conditions that i could no longer manage to work through anymore
    and went to the medical some time later which of course i failed.
    Iwent for a MR straight away ,failed and took it to tribunal.
    i claimed ESA at the assesemnt rate during this time.
    I then unbelievably missed two tribunals around march time due to a mix up and confusion with dates they had given me and my annoying cognative issues.
    i finally got to tribunal in May 2017 where they immedistely stated they woukd not be able to take my new evidence (of new conditions) into account as my claim was made in November.
    i basically failed on the spot because of this.
    i contacted ESA immediately while at the CAB and the man i spoke to said it was wrong of the tribunal to refuse my evidence and to re apply gor ESA again on the grounds of my new and worsening conditions .I semt in a fit note that day backing this up and was told to sign on jsa in the interim.
    I was then told by jsa before i had even had a payment that i had been put straight back onto ESA based on my fit note.I had not at this point even sent off new claim forms.
    I then remained on ESA untill my WCA last month.
    I then failed that too but with 6 points as apposed to 0.
    I asked for a MR and sent in more harder evidence including a letter from my doctor and the decision was overturned.
    I have now after a year of absaloute stress and turmoil been placed into the WRAG group.
    but my initial relief has turned to anxiety when i realised my "new claim"was made literally a few weeks after the cuts came in and i will now still be struggling just as much as i have been on the lowest rate of ESA and i imagine NO back pay .

    I do not know this for sure as i still have no award letter but this is how im guessing its going to be ?
    Unless the dwp back dates to my original claim back in Novemember last year due to my worsening and new conditions.I am still VERY confused by all of this and the idea of having to continue to live at subsistance level while being unwell and trying to support a family fills me with dread And my benefits have been all over the place due to being forced to claim jsa for a week.weve been to the food bank 3 times in the last few weeks..
    i realise this is a bit of a long post but any advice would be so gladly appreciated !so many thsnks in advance if anyone has the energy to read through it and give me some feed back !:-)
Page 1
    • IAmWales
    • By IAmWales 7th Oct 17, 6:20 PM
    • 1,862 Posts
    • 3,854 Thanks
    IAmWales
    • #2
    • 7th Oct 17, 6:20 PM
    • #2
    • 7th Oct 17, 6:20 PM
    As you lost your appeal your claim would have been closed. Your new application would not result in any back payments for the period before the second claim was made.

    The tribunal were correct, they can only consider your condition at the time of the original decision.

    Who else is in your household, what other benefits and income do you have?
    Last edited by IAmWales; 07-10-2017 at 6:23 PM.
    • TELLIT01
    • By TELLIT01 7th Oct 17, 6:42 PM
    • 4,257 Posts
    • 4,435 Thanks
    TELLIT01
    • #3
    • 7th Oct 17, 6:42 PM
    • #3
    • 7th Oct 17, 6:42 PM
    As IAmWales says, there will be no backdating because you lost at tribunal. The new claim would be accepted due to new or worsening condition, but it will still be a new claim.
    If I am interpreting the OP, the previous claim ended in May of 2017 and a new claim was made shortly after that. This is after the change of the rules on ESA so you will remain on the basic £73ish as there is no extra payment for being placed in the WRAG. Unless you can show that you should be in the Support Group there isn't anything you can do to get more money from ESA.
    • fumin37
    • By fumin37 7th Oct 17, 7:27 PM
    • 55 Posts
    • 11 Thanks
    fumin37
    • #4
    • 7th Oct 17, 7:27 PM
    • #4
    • 7th Oct 17, 7:27 PM
    Hi guys ..yes thankyou ..its much as i thought ..a very long ardous and highly stressful battle for nothing.A waste of my extremely precious energy
    Completley devestated .
    as for other other income i am only recieving child tax credit..in total me and my son and my daughter who is a student are living on my 130 quid a week due to huge amounts of money coming out to reply a loan i was forced to take out from dwp to pay bills during the periods of having no money being chucked off esa ..
    I have applied and been asessed for pip but despite plenty of evidence and a long and complex med history ..i hold out pretty much zero hope of being awarded it as i hear its even harder to get than ESA .
    • epitome
    • By epitome 7th Oct 17, 7:35 PM
    • 3,027 Posts
    • 1,837 Thanks
    epitome
    • #5
    • 7th Oct 17, 7:35 PM
    • #5
    • 7th Oct 17, 7:35 PM
    I applied for ESA last year in November 2016
    Originally posted by fumin37
    Ok
    and went to the medical some time later which of course i failed.
    When did you fail...date of decision? = Date A
    Iwent for a MR straight away ,failed and took it to tribunal.
    I claimed ESA at the assesemnt rate during this time.
    Ahhh... Did you make a new claim to ESA at this time, with new or worsened conditions (this would be claim 2) What date did you claim from?....so you did not ask for ESA to pay you on appeal then.
    I got to tribunal in May 2017 where they immedistely stated they woukd not be able to take my new evidence (of new conditions) into account as my claim was made in November.
    Were the new conditions started after "Date A"? If so, the tribunal is correct.

    I contacted ESA immediately and the man I spoke to said it was wrong of the tribunal to refuse my evidence and to re apply gor ESA again on the grounds of my new and worsening conditions
    I make no comment on the tribunal... But his advice to make a new ESA claim sounds to me (based on your expected replies to my questions above) to be nonsense, as you already had a new claim 'claim 2'

    I sent in a fit note that day backing this up
    ok...but you had already been sending in sick notes while you were waiting for your tribunal...right? otherwise ESA would not have paid you.
    and was told to sign on jsa in the interim.
    Who told you to claim JSA? Claimants are not allowed to do "double claiming" under these circumstances.
    I was then told by JSA before I had even had a payment that I had been put straight back onto ESA based on my fit note.I had not at this point even sent off new claim forms.
    No, sounds to me like JSA were saying "you already have a live claim for ESA which is paying you so we are not going to allow your JSA claim".

    I then remained on ESA untill my WCA last month.
    Yes ESA continued to pay you on 'claim 2'.
    I then failed that too but with 6 points as apposed to 0.
    I asked for a MR and sent in more harder evidence including a letter from my doctor and the decision was overturned. I have now after a year of absolute stress and turmoil been placed into the WRAG group.
    Sounds good so far....


    but my initial relief has turned to anxiety when I realised my "new claim"was made literally a few weeks after the cuts came in and i will now still be struggling just as much as i have been on the lowest rate of ESA and i imagine NO back pay .
    Yes, correct, there is no WRAG component anymore.

    I do not know this for sure as I still have no award letter but this is how im guessing its going to be ?
    Sounds right to me.

    Unless the DWP back dates to my original claim back in Novemember last year due to my worsening and new conditions.
    This will not happen. You lost 'claim 1' at tribunal.

    I am still VERY confused by all of this and the idea of having to continue to live at subsistance level while being unwell and trying to support a family fills me with dread
    So you have a partner? So you will get ESA at £114.85 per week, if you are single...£73.10 per week.....you also get child Ben and Child tax Credits.

    And my benefits have been all over the place due to being forced to claim jsa for a week.
    You were not forced, But what week are you talking about? Dates please.....

    Sounds to me like you don't understand what you have done....if you disagree with anything I have surmised...then I need you - next time you phone ESA enquiries to ask them for all your dates of claim

    What date was ESA opened in Nov 16? What date was it closed?
    What was your next claim JSA or ESA and date opened and date closed
    What was your next claim JSA or ESA date opened and date closed..
    and so on and so on until you get to todays date.

    And what dates are there any gaps for payment of either JSA or ESA since November 2016 start date?

    Tell me all that and I will be able to go from there.
    Last edited by epitome; 07-10-2017 at 7:40 PM.
    • fumin37
    • By fumin37 7th Oct 17, 7:58 PM
    • 55 Posts
    • 11 Thanks
    fumin37
    • #6
    • 7th Oct 17, 7:58 PM
    • #6
    • 7th Oct 17, 7:58 PM
    Thankyou epitome ..it will take me some time to work all of this out ..i have real issues with ordering stuff and dealing with piles of paperwork ..it is overwhealming ..and i often screw things up because of it .
    many many thsnks for your feeback ..
    i was "forced "to sign on jsa as i would have had no possible way to feed my family or pay my bills if i hadnt claimed anything.
    i still can barely do those things ..
    • epitome
    • By epitome 7th Oct 17, 8:15 PM
    • 3,027 Posts
    • 1,837 Thanks
    epitome
    • #7
    • 7th Oct 17, 8:15 PM
    • #7
    • 7th Oct 17, 8:15 PM
    By the way... all of this can be answered on one phonecall to ESA Equiries...They can tell you ESA and JSA startd and finish dates, and all dates of payment gaps for each benefit.

    "next time you phone ESA enquiries to ask them for all your dates of claim

    What date was ESA opened in Nov 16? What date was it closed?
    What was your next claim JSA or ESA and date opened and date closed
    What was your next claim JSA or ESA date opened and date closed..
    and so on and so on until you get to todays date.

    And what dates are there any gaps for payment of either JSA or ESA since November 2016 start date?"
    • fumin37
    • By fumin37 7th Oct 17, 9:03 PM
    • 55 Posts
    • 11 Thanks
    fumin37
    • #8
    • 7th Oct 17, 9:03 PM
    • #8
    • 7th Oct 17, 9:03 PM
    Ok thankyou ..ive found some dates but not all ..so i will do that on monday morning after ive been back to the CAB ..you are right about me not knowing what im doing ..the last 3 years have been horrific and ive not been thinking straight ..also havnt felt able to get the appropriate support ..i fully expected to be going back to work after being diagnosed and i always just thought i would need to work around my conditions and pace myself better than in previous jobs ..but it hasnt worked out like that unfortunately .Everything just got worse and worse untill i could barely deal with anything anymore .
    as for the jsa thing im pretty sure ive not had any gap in payments but they tend to go all over the place up and down and whatnot as everythings being recaculated which throws everything off balance
    .
    • fumin37
    • By fumin37 7th Oct 17, 9:44 PM
    • 55 Posts
    • 11 Thanks
    fumin37
    • #9
    • 7th Oct 17, 9:44 PM
    • #9
    • 7th Oct 17, 9:44 PM
    As for the JSA it has always been ESA who have told me to sign on jSA.I then get put into the JSA version of support group due to my fit notes which have been regularly sent since my first claim over a year ago..ITS SO COMPLICATED !i will get the dates ..and again thanks so much for your help .
    • kelpie35
    • By kelpie35 7th Oct 17, 9:57 PM
    • 1,535 Posts
    • 4,907 Thanks
    kelpie35
    are you sure you are claiming all the benefits you are due?

    do you get help with your rent and council tax?

    are there any other members in your family working?
    • poppy12345
    • By poppy12345 7th Oct 17, 10:06 PM
    • 1,767 Posts
    • 1,592 Thanks
    poppy12345
    As for the JSA it has always been ESA who have told me to sign on jSA.I then get put into the JSA version of support group due to my fit notes which have been regularly sent since my first claim over a year ago..ITS SO COMPLICATED !i will get the dates ..and again thanks so much for your help .
    Originally posted by fumin37
    Not sure what you mean by this but there's no JSA version of the Support Group.
    • fumin37
    • By fumin37 7th Oct 17, 10:08 PM
    • 55 Posts
    • 11 Thanks
    fumin37
    Thankyou for your reply .Yes im sure kelpie .I have one dependant child who lives with me and my other one who is full time student non dependant.I recieve 57.00 child tax credits for him and 20.00 child benefit.
    housing benefit is N/A. CT is sorted .
    • fumin37
    • By fumin37 7th Oct 17, 10:15 PM
    • 55 Posts
    • 11 Thanks
    fumin37
    Poppy there is a 13 week period where you can claim JSA and still be written off sick.I cant remember what they call it .
    • poppy12345
    • By poppy12345 7th Oct 17, 10:17 PM
    • 1,767 Posts
    • 1,592 Thanks
    poppy12345
    Thankyou for your reply .Yes im sure kelpie .I have one dependant child who lives with me and my other one who is full time student non dependant.I recieve 57.00 child tax credits for him and 20.00 child benefit.
    housing benefit is N/A. CT is sorted .
    Originally posted by fumin37
    Does your non dependant child recieve a student loan? If so and they live at home with you, shouldn't he/she be contributing towards their upkeep? As you no longer recieve benefits for them that extra mouth to feed isn't easy.
    • kelpie35
    • By kelpie35 7th Oct 17, 10:23 PM
    • 1,535 Posts
    • 4,907 Thanks
    kelpie35
    Is your student daughter/son living at home with you?

    If so are they contributing to the household by having a part time/evening job.
    • fumin37
    • By fumin37 7th Oct 17, 10:25 PM
    • 55 Posts
    • 11 Thanks
    fumin37
    Thats a whole other complicated realm altogether poppy ....
    • IAmWales
    • By IAmWales 7th Oct 17, 11:16 PM
    • 1,862 Posts
    • 3,854 Thanks
    IAmWales
    If your loan repayment is unmanageable then speak to the DWP. They may ask you to complete a statement of incomings and outgoings but will then set the repayment amount at something more manageable.
    • fumin37
    • By fumin37 8th Oct 17, 7:55 AM
    • 55 Posts
    • 11 Thanks
    fumin37
    Not sure what you mean by this but there's no JSA version of the Support Group.
    Originally posted by poppy12345

    The 13 week period is known as EPS (extended period of sick ness ) Each time i have been told to sign on JSA i have automatically been put immediately onto this due to being continuously signed off sick at the time of the claim and the JC deciding im not in the right place place to be looking fir work.
    During this time one is not required to partake in any JS activities at all and may only have to speak to a job coach on the telephone occasionaly and that is usualy just for them to see how you are doing and where you are at .
    Last edited by fumin37; 08-10-2017 at 7:58 AM.
    • poppy12345
    • By poppy12345 8th Oct 17, 8:10 AM
    • 1,767 Posts
    • 1,592 Thanks
    poppy12345
    The 13 week period is known as EPS (extended period of sick ness ) Each time i have been told to sign on JSA i have automatically been put immediately onto this due to being continuously signed off sick at the time of the claim and the JC deciding im not in the right place place to be looking fir work.
    During this time one is not required to partake in any JS activities at all and may only have to speak to a job coach on the telephone occasionaly and that is usualy just for them to see how you are doing and where you are at .
    Originally posted by fumin37
    Yes i knew about that but your wording " JSA version of the Support Group" confused me.
    • fumin37
    • By fumin37 8th Oct 17, 8:29 AM
    • 55 Posts
    • 11 Thanks
    fumin37
    Is your student daughter/son living at home with you?

    If so are they contributing to the household by having a part time/evening job.
    Originally posted by kelpie35
    My daughter gets a small loan .She is also chronically unwell and struggles her way admireably through uni.We have the same condition.Up untill she went to uni and i went on to ESA we both worked in the care profession.She does not want to claim for her illness and i respect that.She helps out when she she can but it is sporadic.I have had to borrow 100s from her over the last year (which i still owe her ) in order to keep my car on the road(which i need) and pay bills and other debts.We often have had no food in the house.This is very demeaning indeed since i am the parent not her.
    She already doesnt have much of a life due to her conditions and is trying to save to move out which is proving difficult ,so i wouldnt expect her to help more than she already does when she can . Apart from any of that, her situation is irrelevant to my ESA situation.
    I mention all this as im getting the distinct impression there are people on this forum that assume some people on ESA are benefits scroungers from some posts ive read.
    I dont think many people would choose to put themselves through the hell we as a family have been through the last year for 73 pounds a week purely to avoid going to work which i would give anything to be able to do And still very much hope to do in the future.
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