Green, ethical, energy issues in the news

Martyn1981 · 1 October 2017 at 6:01PM

Just to say that wind generation is currently 'off the dial' on Gridwatch with 8.3GW and 26% of demand.

Add in embedded generation and that's about 10.8GW (~31% of demand), or 10.9GW as per this site.

michaels · 1 October 2017 at 10:33PM

Martyn1981 wrote: »

Psst, don't mention the batteries, total PITA. I suspect (hopeless optimism) that things are now shifting. There are a lot of plans for large batt factories, plus of course some real ones being built, and the Nevada Gigafactory extensions will take it to 150GWh pa, up from the original 35GWh.

Next year I think Tesla plan to ship 500,000 cars, plus those pesky Powerwalls and Powerpacks* too.

Of course, even 150GWh/500,000 cars is still small change, so all eyes are on TGF 2, 3 & 4 (with rumours of #5 already), and other non-Tesla factory announcements taking the total to 10+.

* For full disclosure, the Australian news attracting "100 days or they're free" Powerpack farm will actually use Samsung batts, as Panasonic/Tesla need all of theirs currently for the S, 3 & X models. Roll on the Y to complete Elon's 10yr promise to make SEXY EV's.

Apparently the model 3 isn't called the model E because Ford had the trademark

As an owner of a 2.5yr old EV I am all for used prices holding up well.

Is it possible that in 5 years time 50% of all vehicles sold will include some form of battery even if the majority are just prius style hybrids?

Cardew · 1 October 2017 at 10:37PM

Martyn1981 wrote: »

I've got good news for you, there's been an EV capable of this for several years already.

The Tesla S 100 can do 514 miles at 45mph, or 319 miles at 70mph, and somewhere in-between at somewhere in-between. An 80% charge will only take 40 mins at supercharger sites. And the cars cost much less than a Ferrari.

I think EV's are a bit like PV, batts and heat pumps, many folk just don't realise how good they are.

Of course, a rental car for some journeys is another option, allowing for the use of an EV with a smaller range, and after deducting wear and tear, 1,000 miles nearer to next service and mileage depreciation, could even be cheaper than using your own.

https://www.autocar.co.uk/car-review/tesla/model-s/first-drives/tesla-model-s-100d-2017-uk-review?page=1

Not news to me; and a Tesla 100 is hardly money saving! I wonder what the 'real world' range is in winter.

So hire at £280 a day for the 2 or 3 weeks stay?

Driving at 45mph in a car capable of 0-60mph in less than 3 seconds isn't exactly sensible, and some police will issue a warning for driving that slow on a motorway; albeit it is not against the law.

I repeat an EV is not likely to be suitable for my requirements for a long while. IMO EVs are ideal in a 2 car household.

Martyn1981 · 2 October 2017 at 7:39AM

Cardew wrote: »

Not news to me; and a Tesla 100 is hardly money saving! I wonder what the 'real world' range is in winter.

Hiya. Again, lots of good news. The Tesla S 100, at 70mph and 10C has a 311 mile range, so certainly suitable, given you mentioned the journey requires stops, and that's probably around 6hrs of driving. [303 miles at 0C and 290 miles at -10C]

Cardew wrote: »

So hire at £280 a day for the 2 or 3 weeks stay?

More good news, I just checked, and I think you got the rental costs mixed up, a full size MPV on Enterprise (first and only site I checked) was £297 per week, not day.

So as I explained, possibly a cheaper option than using your own car (tyre wear, general wear and tear, 1,000 mile price depreciation (probably £200 alone), 1,000 mile of your service interval used up, etc). And in the context of this discussion, no need to rule out a shorter range EV, just hire a more 'specialised' vehicle for those long hauls. [I've based on 1,000 miles, but presumably total mileage is higher across the two weeks, increasing savings.]

Cardew wrote: »

Driving at 45mph in a car capable of 0-60mph in less than 3 seconds isn't exactly sensible, and some police will issue a warning for driving that slow on a motorway; albeit it is not against the law.

Sorry, I think you missed the point. I said:-

The Tesla S 100 can do 514 miles at 45mph, or 319 miles at 70mph, and somewhere in-between at somewhere in-between.

I don't believe I suggested you drive down the motorway at 45mph, as I gave a 70mph range. The point was to let you know that at lower speeds, which I assume you do for some of the journey, the range is much greater. So the total range will reflect all driving not just 70mph driving.

Also worth pointing out that the top speed or 0-60 time of a car does not dictate how fast it should be driven. So you should stick to all speed limits at all times, regardless of the capabilities of your car.

Cardew wrote: »

I repeat an EV is not likely to be suitable for my requirements for a long while. IMO EVs are ideal in a 2 car household.

Absolutely, perfect for a 2 car household, and also perfect for the extreme example you have given, even now, or when combined with occasional, low cost (net) car hire.

What is now fascinating is that the EV option appears to meet most needs already. I also suspect that net of running costs they are already cheaper than ICEV's, so the future looks very promising as costs continue to fall going forward. So all good news.

Martyn1981 · 2 October 2017 at 7:51AM

Martyn1981 wrote: »

Just to say that wind generation is currently 'off the dial' on Gridwatch with 8.3GW and 26% of demand.

Add in embedded generation and that's about 10.8GW (~31% of demand), or 10.9GW as per this site.

Just to say that wind is even higher now, showing 8.44GW on Gridwatch, and 'all-in' broke the UK record yesterday with 11.3GW, and a possible 12GW today when the hurricane remnants hit us.

Edit: 10am and 11.5GW. :-)

ed110220 · 2 October 2017 at 2:44PM

Martyn1981 wrote: »

Just to say that wind is even higher now, showing 8.44GW on Gridwatch, and 'all-in' broke the UK record yesterday with 11.3GW, and a possible 12GW today when the hurricane remnants hit us.

Edit: 10am and 11.5GW. :-)

11 GW at the moment, and interestingly we're simultaneously importing electricity from the Netherlands and exporting to France. I guess this means the transmission capacity between France and the Netherlands is at capacity and so it can't go more directly?

Ed

Cardew · 2 October 2017 at 4:21PM

Martyn1981 wrote: »

Hiya. Again, lots of good news. The Tesla S 100, at 70mph and 10C has a 311 mile range, so certainly suitable, given you mentioned the journey requires stops, and that's probably around 6hrs of driving. [303 miles at 0C and 290 miles at -10C]

More good news, I just checked, and I think you got the rental costs mixed up, a full size MPV on Enterprise (first and only site I checked) was £297 per week, not day.
I was quoting cost per day of the Teslar S100

So as I explained, possibly a cheaper option than using your own car (tyre wear, general wear and tear, 1,000 mile price depreciation (probably £200 alone), 1,000 mile of your service interval used up, etc). And in the context of this discussion, no need to rule out a shorter range EV, just hire a more 'specialised' vehicle for those long hauls. [I've based on 1,000 miles, but presumably total mileage is higher across the two weeks, increasing savings.]

Sorry, I think you missed the point. I said:-

I don't believe I suggested you drive down the motorway at 45mph, as I gave a 70mph range. The point was to let you know that at lower speeds, which I assume you do for some of the journey, the range is much greater. So the total range will reflect all driving not just 70mph driving.

Also worth pointing out that the top speed or 0-60 time of a car does not dictate how fast it should be driven. So you should stick to all speed limits at all times, regardless of the capabilities of your car.

Absolutely, perfect for a 2 car household, and also perfect for the extreme example you have given, even now, or when combined with occasional, low cost (net) car hire.

What is now fascinating is that the EV option appears to meet most needs already. I also suspect that net of running costs they are already cheaper than ICEV's, so the future looks very promising as costs continue to fall going forward. So all good news.

I appreciate you bringing your unique logic to bear on the solution to my requirements for an EV. However I do accept your input was TIC.

Let me say firstly that I fully accept that EVs are the future and in time, with improved technology and lowered initial costs, they will make financial sense for many motorists.

However this is a money saving website and at present they make no sense for the vast majority of motorists.

Let us take the Nissan Leaf 30kW - a smallish family car. The list price for the cheapest version is £25,790. A comparable size petrol/diesel car costs around half that amount - eg. Hyundai I20 is £11,755, Nissan Pulsar is £13,275. Although the official mpg figures are much higher, both those petrol cars will comfortably achieve 45mpg in ‘real world’ motoring.

The petrol costs for a 10,000 mile a year motorist would be approx. £1,200 and £160 rfl saving. So after 10 years the total outlay(buying car and fuel/rfl costs) would be roughly the cost of the purchase price of the Leaf.

You then have to consider the electricity costs(£250pa?) for 100,000 miles on the Leaf and the cost of borrowing an extra £12k to £14k(or loss of interest). Also the Leaf price includes a £4,500 subsidy(music to the ears!) for EVs.

Martyn1981 · 2 October 2017 at 4:40PM

Cardew wrote: »

I appreciate you bringing your unique logic to bear on the solution to my requirements for an EV. However I do accept your input was TIC.

No need to be rude, I was simply addressing your statement

I think it will be a long time before an EV will be suitable for such a journey.

and letting you know that EV's suitable for such a journey have been around for several years, which is great news.

I was quoting cost per day of the Teslar S100

I don't understand why you would want to hire the Tesla, I was offering a solution where you own a smaller EV, then hire an ICEV for your example problem, just to let you know that constructive solutions exist.

Regarding EV running costs, don't just focus on 'Money Saving' but also reflect on 'Green & Ethical' please, as we need to move to cleaner transportation. You might also want to consider reduced brake and tyre wear, and reduced servicing costs too.

Also, you might not have to pay for the electricity:-

Electric car owners 'can drive for free by letting energy firms use battery'

Next, looking forward, the price of these cars will come down when production numbers go up. The batteries are already falling in price, only a couple of months ago Tesla announced a $3,000-$5,000 reduction in the cost of the S & X models to pass on reductions in the cost of battery production. If that happened once a year, then even on smaller battery models such as the 3, that could wipe $10,000 off the price.

Anyways, it might not be the car for you yet, but as I said, the good news is that your particular objection is no obstacle at all, already.

Martyn1981 · 2 October 2017 at 4:45PM

michaels wrote: »

Apparently the model 3 isn't called the model E because Ford had the trademark

What goes around, comes around.

When Ford relaunched the GT, they couldn't call it the GT40 as they'd never trademarked the nickname (based on the car being only 40 inches tall) of the 1960's car. One of the replica car makers had the name and wanted too much for it.

Martyn1981 · 2 October 2017 at 4:47PM

ed110220 wrote: »

11 GW at the moment, and interestingly we're simultaneously importing electricity from the Netherlands and exporting to France. I guess this means the transmission capacity between France and the Netherlands is at capacity and so it can't go more directly?

Ed

I've stolen this comment, but I'm sure it's correct:

National Grid reporting on Twitter that last night saw the UK's Lowest ever carbon intensity - 73 gCO2/kWh - between 01/10/2017 23:30 - 00:00 UTC.

Green, ethical, energy issues in the news

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