Yet another IPA query

2

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  • debtinfo
    debtinfo Posts: 7,012 Forumite
    Paying the required payments at a later date is not the same as extending the agreement passed 3 years as the payments were due based on the assesment within the 3 year period

    To give you a clearer example pretend you were in the last month of the 3 years and you simply didnt pay that month and you reached the end of the 3 years, are you really saying sniggings that moonbeever could not get that money of you because the 3 years is up, or as i am saying the payment was due within the 3 years so falls within the agreement and can therefore be chased and made to pay after the 3 years. Think about it carefully.
    Hi, im Debtinfo, i am an ex insolvency examiner and over the years have personally dealt with thousands of bankruptcy cases.
    Please note that any views i put forth are not those of my former employer The Insolvency Service and do not constitute professional advice, you should always seek professional advice before entering insolvency proceedings.
  • sniggings
    sniggings Posts: 5,281
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    edited 5 December 2012 at 6:59PM
    debtinfo wrote: »
    Paying the required payments at a later date is not the same as extending the agreement passed 3 years as the payments were due based on the assesment within the 3 year period

    To give you a clearer example pretend you were in the last month of the 3 years and you simply didnt pay that month and you reached the end of the 3 years, are you really saying sniggings that moonbeever could not get that money of you because the 3 years is up, or as i am saying the payment was due within the 3 years so falls within the agreement and can therefore be chased and made to pay after the 3 years. Think about it carefully.

    very clear what I'm saying, you pay an IPA from the date it comes into force, which is when those involved sign the form, the IPA will only last for a total of 3 years, any excessive income that is covered by the IPA will be due.

    Your "example" is childish, you know it and anyone reading this knows it, not sure how your "example" is relevant to this thread but I will answer it so you can not accuse me of not answering.

    If the payment is not paid but it is covered by the 3 years then of course it is still owed... debtinfo I thought you were more professional than to side track a thread in this way.
  • PippaGirl_2
    PippaGirl_2 Posts: 2,218 Forumite
    debtinfo hasn't side tracked anything! The conversation on this was already going. So it is as I said, except the IPA isn't officially suspended, instead you can miss payments for one or two months or however long when you need the finances to pay for unexpected needs and then you can pay the missed payments after the IPA has ended. So, it's as it as I said but not called a suspension.
    "Our prime purpose in this life is to help others. And if you can't help them, at least don't hurt them." Dalai Lama
  • debtinfo
    debtinfo Posts: 7,012 Forumite
    so you agree that if an amount is due but cant be paid at that time then it could be added on to the end of the IPA to catch up, yes? The exemple i used is simply to make it clearer because it is easier to see how a missed payment at the end rolls over the 3 year mark. The same principle applies to wherever the missed payment is during the IPA period. are we agreed on that?

    conversely if your expenses have genuinely changed that it is a lesser amount that is the due not the original amount and so it does not have to be made up at the end. (ie a lower amount is owed rather than an amount has been missed.

    Therefore the OR needs to judge if the OP's expenses have changed or not.

    Now as you know an allowance is made in the IPA for vehicle repairs. Of course in reality you never know if your car is going to break down right near the start when you have not been able to save up or near the end when you have been able to save. Therfore you may need to miss a few payments. In that case your expenditure has not changed it has just come all at the start when you dont have the cashflow. therefore the amounts are likely to be classed as missed and so need to be caught up with later.

    There are of course times when a totaly unexpected expense comes up that has not been accounted for and so the OR would class that as a short term change in expenditure and so no need to catch up later.

    As you can see there is not always a one answer fits all answer and there is some determination that the OR needs to make why it is important to look at it with actual experience from many many cases rather than a narrow point of view
    Hi, im Debtinfo, i am an ex insolvency examiner and over the years have personally dealt with thousands of bankruptcy cases.
    Please note that any views i put forth are not those of my former employer The Insolvency Service and do not constitute professional advice, you should always seek professional advice before entering insolvency proceedings.
  • Well all of the above argument is academic really since I didnt ask for a suspension in my IPA, my dad gave me the money instead :D

    As it happens my IPA has been adjusted (or whatever the technical phrase is) down to nil at the moment, it is due for review again in January. So even if I had asked for a payment holiday it wouldnt have helped at all - but obviously you didnt know that when the suggestion was originally made :)
  • debtinfo
    debtinfo Posts: 7,012 Forumite
    glad you got it sorted anyway Advice :)
    Hi, im Debtinfo, i am an ex insolvency examiner and over the years have personally dealt with thousands of bankruptcy cases.
    Please note that any views i put forth are not those of my former employer The Insolvency Service and do not constitute professional advice, you should always seek professional advice before entering insolvency proceedings.
  • sniggings
    sniggings Posts: 5,281
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    debtinfo wrote: »
    so you agree that if an amount is due but cant be paid at that time then it could be added on to the end of the IPA to catch up, yes? The exemple i used is simply to make it clearer because it is easier to see how a missed payment at the end rolls over the 3 year mark. The same principle applies to wherever the missed payment is during the IPA period. are we agreed on that?

    conversely if your expenses have genuinely changed that it is a lesser amount that is the due not the original amount and so it does not have to be made up at the end. (ie a lower amount is owed rather than an amount has been missed.

    Therefore the OR needs to judge if the OP's expenses have changed or not.

    Now as you know an allowance is made in the IPA for vehicle repairs. Of course in reality you never know if your car is going to break down right near the start when you have not been able to save up or near the end when you have been able to save. Therfore you may need to miss a few payments. In that case your expenditure has not changed it has just come all at the start when you dont have the cashflow. therefore the amounts are likely to be classed as missed and so need to be caught up with later.

    There are of course times when a totaly unexpected expense comes up that has not been accounted for and so the OR would class that as a short term change in expenditure and so no need to catch up later.

    As you can see there is not always a one answer fits all answer and there is some determination that the OR needs to make why it is important to look at it with actual experience from many many cases rather than a narrow point of view


    I think it is very clear what I have said, you can give any number of "examples" you want but the fact remains, an IPA lasst for a total of 3 years, if you choose not to pay what is owe then of course it's still owed to moonbeaver, thats not the same as saying when an IPA is reduced to £0 or lowered the amount is still owed at the end of the IPA because if it is set at £0 or reduce you do not owe that money :)

    anyway I have helped the OP, so will not be replying to any more of your "examples" :rotfl:
  • kepar
    kepar Posts: 1,297 Forumite
    Sniggings actually I believe in this case you are wrong.

    Whilst paying an IPA your payment could be reduced to £0, if a change in circumstances deem you have no spare income. THe months whilst it is set at £0 will count towards the monthly payments.

    But an OR can suspend an IPA for a few months if you require a large necessary bill to be paid. Note the term suspend, this means that these months will not count towards the 36 payments/3 years.

    Over the last 3-4 years I have read at least 10 cases on this site where this has happened.
  • sniggings
    sniggings Posts: 5,281
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    kepar wrote: »
    Sniggings actually I believe in this case you are wrong.

    Whilst paying an IPA your payment could be reduced to £0, if a change in circumstances deem you have no spare income. THe months whilst it is set at £0 will count towards the monthly payments.

    But an OR can suspend an IPA for a few months if you require a large necessary bill to be paid. Note the term suspend, this means that these months will not count towards the 36 payments/3 years.

    Over the last 3-4 years I have read at least 10 cases on this site where this has happened.


    If your IPA is reduced or set at £0, it is for a reason, if you have a large expense, then that is the reason, so it would be silly to then say, we stopped your IPA because you had extra expenses but we still want you to pay it back at the end of the IPA! so when they start it again, you will not only have to pay the excess income but also for the period when it was lowered or suspended, an IPA is not suspended but set at £0 or lowered.

    if you don't believe me maybe a quote from our very own debtinfo, he can be trusted to give nonconflicting advice ;)
    Basically, by his time you are in the IPA, the IPA continues to run for the full 36 months. Usually they just vary it so that you pay £0 pm. The missing months count towards the total. So if after 30 months you regained a surplus then you would resume payments of what you could afford for the last 6 months
  • PippaGirl_2
    PippaGirl_2 Posts: 2,218 Forumite
    Debt info was talking about if your regular income expenditure changed leaving no surplas in that instance which is totally different than the situation I was talking about of sudden one off expenses/costs and what then happens to an IPA.
    "Our prime purpose in this life is to help others. And if you can't help them, at least don't hurt them." Dalai Lama
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