Solar Panels only generating 59%. What should I do?

stevewinelover · 23 April 2015 at 11:25AM

Hi everyone,
We were told by the Project Solar engineer that our system is only generating 59% of what it should because of the incorrect placement of some of the panels. Project Solar rang to say that they would be writing to me with an offer to refund 41% of our initial outlay.

My question is - Do you think this is a breach of contract and is £2,869 (41% of £6,999) a good offer? If not, what should I be asking for?

We would not have invested in this system had we known at the time that it would have such a limited capability, even if it had been 59% of the price of a 'full' system.

I've been patient with them so far because they appear to want to address the issue, but I feel that I am due more than simply the % difference (between what it should generate and what it actually does) off the original price.

Background
In September 2013 I had Project Solar install 16 panels (4KW system) on my roof. There were problems on the day, because all of the panels couldn’t be fitted together, so four had to go on a sloping roof at right angles to the rest. They were all wired separately, rather than together, to maximise output that would otherwise have been affected when some of the panels were in shade.

After our first FIT payment I contacted Project Solar to say that the payment was very low, but they advised me to wait for a year to see what the annual total would be. If it was still low they would send out an engineer to inspect our system. After a year I asked them to send someone out, but it took months before they eventually agreed. In the meantime I had received £330 to cover the difference between our actual revenue for the year and what Project Solar guaranteed (for the first year) we should get.

We were quoted FIT and electricity savings of >£800 in the first year and subsequent increases for the next 19 (index linked to RPI), but it seems like the salesman got a bit overenthusiastic about the size of our roof, because we ended up with four panels on a sloping roof at right angles to the others. He also forgot to take into account that we have a big chimney that blocks most of the light from reaching the sloping roof. The engineer informed us that the four panels would rarely get enough light to generate anything at all.

Sterlingtimes · 23 April 2015 at 12:03PM

An actionable misrepresentation is a statement of material fact made prior to the contract by Project Solar which is false or misleading and which induced you to enter into the contract.

Could be negligent misstatement. The remedy would be to put you into the position that you would have been in if Project Solar had not made the misrepresentation.

The remedy could be removing the system and repaying you the purchase price less savings received by way of FIT or otherwise. Or it could be accepting the refund if you are happy with the returns that will flow from the less efficient system.

Would an alternative supplier be able to assure the returns that you expect given all of the circumstances concerning you location and property. If not, then it appear to be a question of whether you wish to retain the system, accept a partial return in purchase price and suffer the lower FIT and related payments. I would be inclined to reach a settlement.

Martyn1981 · 23 April 2015 at 12:25PM

No idea on the legalities, but will try to cheer you up with some positives (not defending bad practice, I hate it, just trying to help), so here goes:

£800 - In Sept 13, probably about right for a well positioned 4kWp PV system (£600 FiT, £80 export, £120 leccy savings)? So possibly optimistic depending on your location and roof orientation, but hopefully not a deliberate lie.

£7k price not rock bottom cheap, but certainly at the lower end.

With refund, £4k for a 2.4kWp system (4kWp @ 59%) probably a fair price, though I appreciate that's not what you wanted.

Moving on to better news. What inverter do you have (make and model) it may not be suitable to run two strings of differing orientations. Also, even if suitable, it might struggle to work on a string with only 4 panels (perhaps 120V). So, there may be a partial solution involving you fitting a better inverter, or two inverters. So you might be able to boost generation by spending £500 to £1000 of the refund, then selling the old inverter on E-bay.

For clarification on the generation, have a play with PVGIS, there's a walkthrough in sec 5 of the PV FAQs. You'll probably need to 'do it' twice, once for the 12 panel system and then again for the 4 panel system then add the numbers together.

Mart.

EricMears · 23 April 2015 at 12:50PM

stevewinelover wrote: »

There were problems on the day, because all of the panels couldn’t be fitted together, so four had to go on a sloping roof at right angles to the rest. They were all wired separately, rather than together, to maximise output that would otherwise have been affected when some of the panels were in shade.

It's not entirely clear whether you mean that all the panels are fitted with power optimisers or just that the four on the smaller roof were wired separately from the others.

Yours is the sort of application that ought to benefit from POs and if you haven't already got a completely optimised system then you might consider retro-fitting one. I suspect that would cost rather less than their £2800 in which case I'd suggest taking their money and spending some of it on such an uprating scheme. OTOH if your best quote for such a job is more than that then you could suggest that the original company fit them gratis (and lodge a smaller refund claim based on the difference between their original estimate and the 'final final' system's actual performance.

1961Nick · 23 April 2015 at 12:56PM

Another option would be to ask them to replace the existing 16 panels with 12 high output panels. That should get close to a 4kWp.

ed110220 · 23 April 2015 at 8:44PM

1961Nick wrote: »

Another option would be to ask them to replace the existing 16 panels with 12 high output panels. That should get close to a 4kWp.

That would be my preferred option if I were in your shoes. Ask them to replace your panels with 12 BenQ or SunPower 330W panels, all on the best aspect. Possibly alternatively 16x Panasonic 250W panels as they are smaller than most. Difference in (retail) price between 16x 250W panels and say 12x BenQ 330W should be roughly £1000 to give you an idea.

I wouldn't be so happy with accepting a one-off payment to cover an ongoing loss of FIT, electricity savings etc and don't entirely agree with their logic of reducing the price by the same amount as the generation. Take it to extremes and imagine a £1 system that gave a benefit of 20p per year.... proportionally that would be much better than a £4500 system giving a benefit of £600/year but I think I'd know which one you'd rather have!

Ed

jimjames · 23 April 2015 at 9:37PM

1961Nick wrote: »

Another option would be to ask them to replace the existing 16 panels with 12 high output panels. That should get close to a 4kWp.

If they do that would you lose the existing FIT rate and be placed on the current one as it is a change to the system?

Not sure how that would impact but it might be a consideration.

ed110220 · 24 April 2015 at 1:54PM

jimjames wrote: »

If they do that would you lose the existing FIT rate and be placed on the current one as it is a change to the system?

Not sure how that would impact but it might be a consideration.

Good point, you'd have to look into that. Perhaps it could be done without any changes, as the total wattage of panels would be the same.

Ed

theboylard · 24 April 2015 at 6:20PM

Doesn't work that way, it is the panels themselves that attract the FiT. You can resell all components in a solar PV install, except the new owner of the panels would not be able to claim any FiT, as they had already been registered for FiT on a previous installation.

I can't see Project Solar swallowing the cost of replacing the panels and making good on the difference in FiT, but retro fitting SolarEdge would seem the best way for the company and you to get the best out of this situation?

Solar Panels only generating 59%. What should I do?

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