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Part 18 Gladstones/Millennium Swansea

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  • Coupon-mad
    Coupon-mad Posts: 130,617
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    Great stuff.

    I would email it, saves stamps and means you can prove it was sent/received, by copying yourself in.
    PRIVATE 'PCN'? DON'T PAY BUT DON'T IGNORE IT (except N.Ireland).
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  • LucyBea wrote: »
    Hello,
    I have added a few bits into my part 18 request (thank you to Loadsofchildren’s thread of a similar case!). Is there anything else anyone thinks I should add? I’m trying to stay “reasonable” and only ask the things I really need to help my defence, and not asking millions of questions for the sake of it. :cool:

    I have put in a sort of explanation for this request taking me so long – it’s 3 weeks since the papers arrived – is that necessary? No - you've asked for all of this before anyway! I have to make my defence in a week so although this information may not arrive in time, if I cover all my bases in the defence, I can use any information they give me for my skeleton/in court? (I’m sort of working to the assumption they will ignore this as they have ignored all my previous requests, but it will help build my case of Gladstones’ unreasonable behaviour.) ;)

    Dear Gladstones Solicitors,
    With regard to your client, Millennium Door and Event Security LTD, PCN…. Case….

    My last four requests for extremely basic information regarding your client’s cause against me dated xxxxxx have been ignored. You have now served As court proceedings papers have been served with no response at all to my last requests for information and for you to conform to the PRACTICE DIRECTION ON PRE-ACTION CONDUCT (in particular paragraphs 6(a) and (c)) . Regrettably, your client's conduct means that I still do not fully understand your client’s case against me.

    As a member of the general public with no legal training I have looked further into the rules governing pre-trial stage of court proceedings, and I am now making a FORMAL REQUEST for this information under PART 18 OF THE CIVIL PROCEDURE RULES (CPR). This is my preliminary request.

    As a body of legal professionals, I am sure you recognise I need this information, which is necessary and proportionate, to understand the claim against me and to prepare my defence.

    1. What is the basis of your client’s claim?
    (a) If it is breach of contract, PLEASE PROVIDE EVIDENCE OF THIS CONTRACT (and how I, as keeper of the vehicle, entered into this contract, especially as your client did not invoke Schedule 4 of the Protection of Freedoms Act 2012) this information should already have been produced, pursuant to the requirements set out in paragraphs 7.2/3 of Practice Direction 16.
    (b) If this contract was conveyed by signs displayed at the location please provide evidence of these signs
    - wording of these signs, size of sign, and height at which it was displayed
    - size of the font used (if there are different fonts on the sign, please provide the font size of each part of the sign)
    (c) Please provide a map or plan showing where signs were located at the site on the date the alleged contract was entered into
    (d) Please provide a map or plan showing where my vehicle was situated on this date in respect to the signs
    Some of this information should already have been produced pursuant to paragraphs 7.2/3 of Practice Direction 16.

    2. Please identify the landowner for ***
    a) What is your client’s legal capacity if not the land-owner or lessee?
    b) Please provide a clear chain of authority from the landowner by way of a written authority contract, deed or lease

    3. Please clarify the legal status of “Millennium Parking Services”?
    a) Is it a registered company? If it is claimed that it is the “trading as” name of your client please produce evidence of this
    b) Under what basis is it claimed that your client, the Claimant (Millennium Door and Event Security LTD) is entitled to bring this claim, given that the alleged contract (of which I have no evidence) was with Millennium Parking Services?


    4. Please provide a copy of the Notice to Driver dated xxxx [assuming you don't already have this?]

    TAKE NOTICE THAT YOU ARE REQUIRED TO ANSWER THE ABOVE REQUEST WITHIN 14 DAYS OF SERVICE OF THE SAME UPON YOU. SERVICE WILL BE DEEMED TO HAVE BEEN EFFECTED ON THE SECOND BUSINESS DAY AFTER EMAILING.


    You have previously indicated that further information about your client's claim will be provided only at the witness statement stage of proceedings. With respect, you must know that this prevents me from filing a proper defence to the claim. A claim must be set out in full in the Particulars of Claim (a clear requirement of Rule 16.2(1)(a), 16.4(1)(a)).


    Your prior refusal to provide proper information about the claim, and core documents (a breach of the Pre-Action Practice Direction, as set out above), your conduct in issuing a claim which is not properly particularised (a breach of Rule 16, as set out above), and any continued refusal to answer these questions, particularly now that a formal Part 18 request has been made, will be drawn to the court's attention on the question of costs.

    Suggested amendments set out above.
    Although a practising Solicitor, my posts here are NOT legal advice, but are personal opinion based on limited facts provided anonymously by forum users. I accept no liability for the accuracy of any such posts and users are advised that, if they wish to obtain formal legal advice specific to their case, they must seek instruct and pay a solicitor.
  • LucyBea
    LucyBea Posts: 37 Forumite
    Thank you so much LoadsofChildren!
    Those changes are very helpful.

    I do have the Notice to Driver, and the Notice to "Owner" (as outside POFA time frame).

    I'm also quite intrigued regarding the distinction between MPS and Millennium Door and Event you go into on your thread, but I'm not sure I have the legal expertise to argue it ...

    Thank you again!
  • The distinction is something that a higher court would be interested in, and it does have teeth (but I think it's an argument that could go either way). I'm not sure the small claims court is going to want to really consider the argument though. So I agree with you. But I think it's worth putting in. If you get a good judge who is a bit fed up with them they might run with it.
    Although a practising Solicitor, my posts here are NOT legal advice, but are personal opinion based on limited facts provided anonymously by forum users. I accept no liability for the accuracy of any such posts and users are advised that, if they wish to obtain formal legal advice specific to their case, they must seek instruct and pay a solicitor.
  • Also an argument like this may worry Millennium, it would establish a very damaging precedent for them
    Wait til you see their parking contract - if it's like their others it will say that they can only ticket cars that are reported to it as unauthorised by the landowner...... so you ask for evidence that a report was made, otherwise you say they were not authorised by the contract to ticket your car at all. Another point they won't want litigated in case they lose it.
    Although a practising Solicitor, my posts here are NOT legal advice, but are personal opinion based on limited facts provided anonymously by forum users. I accept no liability for the accuracy of any such posts and users are advised that, if they wish to obtain formal legal advice specific to their case, they must seek instruct and pay a solicitor.
  • LucyBea
    LucyBea Posts: 37 Forumite
    Will they provide that contract at some point? If they do not, can a mean judge still side with them? Then, as this possible point of defence is not included in my defence (as it is due next week) will I be allowed to use it in court?
    I suppose I can include something like "as no landowner contract has been provided the defendant is unable to assess the contractual right of the claimant to pursue these proceedings. The defendant reserves the right address this in Court as she has reason to believe the Claimant's parking contract did not authorise them to issue a PCN in the first place..."
    (as the PCN was issued after one minute surely they really have no chance of saying the landowner had made a report!)

    This is all such a ridiculous charade :mad:

    The petrol station have been less than helpful, just keep telling me that if I have a problem I should appeal to millennium who are "an approved BPA operator" (I have informed them they are certainly not!) I made it clear that Millennium are NOT a reputable parking company and even sent them the stuff about Forge Fach... same response. I'm really mad because we all know Millennium and Sadstones are bottom feeders, but the big brand petrol station should care more about their customers - I've spent 1000s there over the years.

    Thank you again for all the help, I will post my defence when done...
  • Coupon-mad
    Coupon-mad Posts: 130,617
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    Will they provide that contract at some point?

    Yes, with their evidence.
    I suppose I can include something like "as no landowner contract has been provided the defendant is unable to assess the contractual right of the claimant to pursue these proceedings. The defendant reserves the right address this in Court as she has reason to believe the Claimant's parking contract did not authorise them to issue a PCN in the first place..."
    (as the PCN was issued after one minute surely they really have no chance of saying the landowner had made a report!)

    Yes indeedy!
    PRIVATE 'PCN'? DON'T PAY BUT DON'T IGNORE IT (except N.Ireland).
    CLICK at the top of this/any page where it says:
    Forum Home»Motoring»Parking Tickets Fines & Parking - read the NEWBIES THREAD
  • LucyBea wrote: »
    Will they provide that contract at some point? yes. With their WS. Although it should of course have been produced pre-proceedings.
    I suppose I can include something like "as no landowner contract has been provided the defendant is unable to assess the contractual right of the claimant to pursue these proceedings. The defendant reserves the right address this in Court as she has reason to believe the Claimant's parking contract did not authorise them to issue a PCN in the first place..." exactly. Put this in.
    (as the PCN was issued after one minute surely they really have no chance of saying the landowner had made a report!)Driver was only there 1 minute??????

    If your "offence" was parking for 1 minute you should include grace periods in the defence. Driver has to be given time to decide whether or not to accept the contract being offered.
    Also the signs at that location are quite high and small.
    Do they have planning/advertising consent? Check on Seansea's planning portal and if not complain. They are a criminal offence (look at the Skeleton on my thread for the Welsh law).
    Although a practising Solicitor, my posts here are NOT legal advice, but are personal opinion based on limited facts provided anonymously by forum users. I accept no liability for the accuracy of any such posts and users are advised that, if they wish to obtain formal legal advice specific to their case, they must seek instruct and pay a solicitor.
  • LucyBea
    LucyBea Posts: 37 Forumite
    Thank you so much for the tip LoadsofChildren, I will check that out.

    I just reviewed the photos the driver took the day of the PCN in 2015. The sign was tiny and quite literally obscured by a lovely overgrown buddleia! No one would ever see it! The driver went right up and took a photo from right in front of the sign and even then I can only read the top 2 lines. I'm not sure if they have changed their signs, I'll have to go back and check, but the only bit I can read says
    "Permit holders and short stay only. If you contravene the above rule or the parking rules set out then you agree to pay a parking charge notice of £100"
    I guess "short stay" must be defined (as 10 mins) in the tiny print, but that's something else I'm throwing into the defence.

    There is also a different "no parking" sign which IS legible from the car. I was planning on pointing to this as being forbidding and hence no contract, but these are not Millennium signs. Does anyone have any advice about this? It is still there 2 years later...
  • LucyBea
    LucyBea Posts: 37 Forumite
    Arrgh having a bit of a panic about how I am leaving it to the last minute!

    Court papers were dated 11 May. I know Bargepole recommends posting, but I'm sure I read something on the forums about emailing a defence - not MCOL as I know it spoils the format. I've been searching for this for ages now, did I imagine it?
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