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  • FIRST POST
    • PlayingHardball
    • By PlayingHardball 26th May 09, 6:40 PM
    • 751Posts
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    PlayingHardball
    REMO-Reciprocal Enforcement of Maintenance Order
    • #1
    • 26th May 09, 6:40 PM
    REMO-Reciprocal Enforcement of Maintenance Order 26th May 09 at 6:40 PM
    Hi all, has anyone got an ex who has moved to another country and stopped supporting their child, as in my case? My ex had been payinig through CSA for 5 years, suddenly got a job in Germany and now CSA can't do anything as he no longer resides here. My question is, has anyone out there gone the route I'm going with a REMO via the courts and been successful? I haven't had a payment since last June and the effect on my daughter has been significant, to say the least. Oh...and him? Well, he is still enjoying short breaks in his house in the south of france, nice one eh? Unfortunately for the ex-I'm not a quitter and am treating this as my 'newest hobby'.
    It would be great to hear a success story! Cheers everyone!
    Last edited by PlayingHardball; 16-01-2010 at 2:30 PM.
Page 1
    • Gailo
    • By Gailo 11th Jul 09, 10:35 PM
    • 18 Posts
    • 8 Thanks
    Gailo
    • #2
    • 11th Jul 09, 10:35 PM
    • #2
    • 11th Jul 09, 10:35 PM
    Was directed to you by a helpful poster, my ex is about to skip the UK, so I was trying to do everything I can to untangle this mess before he leaves for his new life. I never dreamed there would be others like me, he's done everything he could all along to duck responsibilities and seems pleased to have found an easy way out by leaving the country. It may be not much consolation to you, but I think I'm about to embark on the same hobby as you!
    • PlayingHardball
    • By PlayingHardball 12th Jul 09, 1:05 PM
    • 751 Posts
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    PlayingHardball
    • #3
    • 12th Jul 09, 1:05 PM
    • #3
    • 12th Jul 09, 1:05 PM
    Well, avoid some of the mistakes I made such as:
    If your ex is paying via the CSA - don't inform them he is moving, and lets hope he doesn't inform them either. If you do inform them, they will close your case. If it stays open, arrears will build.

    Immediately contact your Magistrate Court which handles REMO's and get the paperwork sent to you.

    Get a UK court order, if you don't already have one. (to send off with the Reciprocal Enforcement Order which will spead things up in the other country)

    I've been passed from pillar to post for the past 13 months, first the CSA haven't acted on information I provided (its a long story), and now I'm struggling to get any results from REMO.

    Another helpful poster on here has told me that I need to have a UK court order to send to the reciprocal country, and I'm just now going to look into this and confirm if this is the case. If it is, I'll be going down that route, but would have preferred to do it from day one 13 months ago.

    As far as my hobby goes....lol, I know it sounds terrible, but that is how I'm treating this, otherwise I'd be stressed and turn bitter like the ex has turned (always HATED he had to pay ME child support, he sees it as my 'holiday fund'. It is terrible that NRP can get away with this, but it seems the easy route, move and make life difficult for those left looking after their children. I'm hopeful that REMO will seek arrears. If they do, the ex will be even bitter and twisted than he already is.

    Oh well, he is the one who suffers in the long run, we have older children as well who are seeing the impact this is having on the younger child who support is due, and they are all starting to 'turn' on their Dad (not my doing, I might add,I've been supportive of her continuing a strong relationship with her Dad throughout my 'hobby') So much so....my partner and I take her to and from the airport to visit him. Am I a mug? :rolleyes:

    Good luck, I'll keep my eye out for your posts. I'd offer you to PM me, but now sure how, but if you know, and you need any support, please do.
  • Lil2002
    • #4
    • 12th Jul 09, 1:40 PM
    • #4
    • 12th Jul 09, 1:40 PM
    From Google

    http://www.officialsolicitor.gov.uk/os/remo.htm

    How to apply

    A UK resident who wishes to apply to obtain maintenance from a person overseas should approach:
    • their local magistrates' court (or county court where the order was made) if they have an existing court order for maintenance; or
    • their local magistrates' court if there is no existing order.
    • PlayingHardball
    • By PlayingHardball 12th Jul 09, 2:15 PM
    • 751 Posts
    • 765 Thanks
    PlayingHardball
    • #5
    • 12th Jul 09, 2:15 PM
    • #5
    • 12th Jul 09, 2:15 PM
    Hi Gailo....
    You are in Scotland, right? Hope this helps....

    http://www.scotland.gov.uk/library2/doc05/omfa-00.htm
    • Gailo
    • By Gailo 12th Jul 09, 11:07 PM
    • 18 Posts
    • 8 Thanks
    Gailo
    • #6
    • 12th Jul 09, 11:07 PM
    • #6
    • 12th Jul 09, 11:07 PM
    Am totally blown away by how much more advice and support there is here, I really had no idea how prevalent this situation is. I now have about 1000 times more info through you that any in real life. It looks like I will need to sort out the court order first of all.
    I'm a mug too by the way, myself and my now husband (also a mug) helped my ex furnish it when he found a house, and covered up when he couldn't afford his childs birthday/Christmas. No more!
    • PlayingHardball
    • By PlayingHardball 27th Jul 09, 5:38 PM
    • 751 Posts
    • 765 Thanks
    PlayingHardball
    • #7
    • 27th Jul 09, 5:38 PM
    • #7
    • 27th Jul 09, 5:38 PM
    Just an update and WARNING for those of you who are going the REMO route - Gailo in particular. I made a big mistake. I TRUSTED the Magistrate court to forward all my documents to London's REMO office to forward to the reciprocal country (Germany in my case). I used to call on a semi regular basis for updates, and until this week I didn't realise anything was amise.

    Well here is an update! It seems they sat on my paperwork for 5 MONTHS!!! That is 5 months less of child support which Germany could have enforced. This info was provided by the London REMO office, so is true.

    I've today written to the Magistrate Courts to demand an explaination, and copied my MP.

    Still getting nowhere. And ex has not not paid a penny towards our child for over a year. At least one consolation - the paperwork (I am told) was sent to Germany on 16th July. I'll keep you posted.

    This is tiring and really frustrating business....
    • Gailo
    • By Gailo 6th Aug 09, 3:41 PM
    • 18 Posts
    • 8 Thanks
    Gailo
    • #8
    • 6th Aug 09, 3:41 PM
    • #8
    • 6th Aug 09, 3:41 PM
    I just spotted this, I feel completely outraged, so can only imagine how you are feeling.
    That is an inexcusable disgrace, an explanation is the very least you deserve right now.
    It continues to shock me how little care is shown to PWC and the children who deserve support. It must affect your daily life, I hope this finally gives the process a huge kick up the backside.
    • PlayingHardball
    • By PlayingHardball 6th Aug 09, 7:27 PM
    • 751 Posts
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    PlayingHardball
    • #9
    • 6th Aug 09, 7:27 PM
    • #9
    • 6th Aug 09, 7:27 PM
    Hi, thanks for your outrage, I just wanted to warn others out there that you must keep on top of everyone, CSA and Magistrates Courts if using REMO. My letter demanded an explanation, and I told them I was copying the letter to my MP.

    I got my answer yesterday from the Magistrates courts....get this....! My contact within the court office has passed my query to her boss as she feels that my disatisfaction is out of her control. Unfortunately the new contact is away on holiday until the 18th August. My next step will be to meet with my MP and see if I can get the inept bunch to pay compensation for the 5 months in which my child has been having to do without. Seriously, I will now be putting everything in writing, and writing to them at least every other week.

    Its bad enough that my ex hasn't been paying, but then, if he's had an extra 5 month break, he's the lucky one.
    • Blonde Bint
    • By Blonde Bint 6th Aug 09, 9:14 PM
    • 1,224 Posts
    • 1,292 Thanks
    Blonde Bint
    Hang on a minute (the hamster just woke up) and your running his daughter back and fourth at your expense to the airports all the while he aint paying A BEAN in any way humpfff.

    Well I think your a bit nicer than I am. While I dont think I would actively obstruct contact, I think I might make it his concern to arrange pick up and drop off of the child. let him stick that in his pipe n choke on it. I hope you dont send her with spending money too, strewth.

    Lets face it sometimes we have more money than at other times, even if we dont have much we can always give something. Some months at the moment we cant afford anything so the father in law makes the payment, I would rather rack up payments to him (at no interest charge and incurring no arrears thanks father in dad) she doesnt need to know where the money came from does she
    Last edited by Blonde Bint; 06-08-2009 at 9:18 PM.
    • PlayingHardball
    • By PlayingHardball 6th Aug 09, 10:43 PM
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    • 765 Thanks
    PlayingHardball
    Thanks Blonde, well, , I did ask for some help towards getting her to the airport, perhaps I'll ask again before the event next week. Your point proves I'm not being unreasonable. I'm like you, almost ALL months there isn't enough, so its a sacrifice for daughters sake.
  • mico62
    I realise this thread is a year old but have any of you had any luck?

    I posted papers to county court a month ago, hand delivered a copy 2 wks later and still not had a response.

    Eldest is about to start uni (ex was supposed to pay a set amount until youngest finished school or uni) and I'm having to use his uni fund to pay bills and he can't go into halls as planned so will have a long and costly commute.

    He sent them both 1/2 month's maintenance for their birthdays so I guess they got 2 presents off me.

    Any advice/suggestions greatly appreciated.
    • AnxiousMum
    • By AnxiousMum 11th Sep 10, 10:14 PM
    • 2,570 Posts
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    AnxiousMum
    Oh my goodness PHB - I just saw this thread, and was outraged for you - and then realised from the last poster that this post was an old one - and you have moved on from here!

    Mico - you say you sent your paperwork to County Court - I know when I went through REMO it was Magistrates Court that I dealt with and not county.....I believe PHB also dealt with Magistrates......hopefully just a wrong court typed in your post!

    Where is your ex? I'm dealing with a REMO case that has the NRP in Canada - if I can be of any assistance let me know!
    • PlayingHardball
    • By PlayingHardball 12th Sep 10, 9:30 AM
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    PlayingHardball
    Hi Mico, the update is I'm still here and hanging in and waiting patiently for Germany to get off their backsides. There has been letters from the German CSA equivalent asking the Magistrates courts here to answer some allegations that the ex is making to them in Germany. Seems he is telling them all sorts of lies and wasting time, but the good thing for him is it is delaying any financial responsibility outcomes!

    I'm not sure what I think of the whole REMO process at the moment, I only know of one other successful person who's gone through the process, Anxiousmum, my application went to the Magistrates courts in November 2008, but didn't actually land on German soil until April 2009. Its now September 2010 and there have been 2 contacts in Germany with their CSA people/council offices and the ex. I'm hoping that this means his number is almost up, and they have seen through his lies and will sort him out with a hefty court order for child maintenance. One thing that is hopeful that came from the ex's last meeting with the Germans was that he showed them a bank statement of money that he had given to my DD several months ago and the German CSA representative commented that it was much less then he should be paying...haha! (he told them it was child support payments and that he paid it directly to me and regularly, it wasn't. It was his attempt to win favour back from his DD by giving her a 'meagre token' which backfired)

    So, still struggling to pay bills and the extras for my DD, and my daughter too is suffering a financial disadvantage as a result.

    I just can't understand how parents can do these things to their kids. My daughter, who just started college, was walking home from the train station last week and is sure her dad drove right past her, without stopping to talk to her!Bless her, she couldn't understand the depth of his hate for her! He decided several months ago to cut her off, my theory is that it eases his guilt of the way he has behaved and treated her over the past 3 years. I hope he has a miserable life, I think he does. He's got plenty of money, but whats that? I'm beyond caring about the financial help, but it doesn't mean I won't hound him down until there are no more hounds available to chase him. Lol...sounds bitter, but I'm really not. I'm just not the type of person who can walk away from an injustice. Especially when that injustice was directed at one of my children.

    In the meantime we are trying hard to get DD a part time job to help pay for the extras she needs (yes makeup and clothes, but vocational lessons as well) And I too have applied for another job on top of my full time job, so he can take his money and shove it where the sun doesn't shine.

    By all means don't give up on the REMO process.

    If it helps, PM me. I've also got dealings with the CSA as my case is pretty complex. Its possible if the REMO process doesn't catch up with the ex, then CSA may be able to.
    • AnxiousMum
    • By AnxiousMum 12th Sep 10, 10:38 AM
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    AnxiousMum
    PHB - there's a big difference between being 'bitter' and not being a 'sucker' I was a 'sucker' for a year whilst ex didn't pay his child support - has now taken six months to register with Family Maintenance Enforcement in Canada over his non payment, and once they got it all filed though - took a month to get first payment, and now after 3 months, he has apparently made an arrangement to pay the arrears. Had I started the enforcement process earlier, I wouldn't be scraping the pennies to help son go to uni in October - hoping his arrears will start coming in prior to that so that we can pay his first terms accommodation leaving him some of his student loan for him. He's been working so has money saved, but also faces four further years which will not be funded by loans - so we need to think further ahead than just the three years! The money he has earned, he has put aside for those years, and we'd like to know he doesn't have to dip into it as he has a longer term plan than just the coming three.
    However, unlike his dad - who wouldn't go without running costs of his boat, hot tub or sauna....and won't give up his family vacations to his partner's homeland of Phillipines, who won't give up buying all the latest and the best for his 14 yr old step son to try and forge a frienship with him (he should see what the step son says about him on facebook! - makes my kids blood boil) - I will, and have in the past, go without things in order that my children receive what they need. I know not all NRP's are like that........but ours definitely is.
  • mico62
    Thank you ladies, its good to know I'm not alone but reading your posts its not going to be as easy as I thought.

    What's really annoying is I've been in touch with the Attorney General's Office and have said as soon as they receive the paperwork they'll enforce the order, they've even given me contact details etc which I've forwarded to the court here. Why are these things so difficult, surely all they need are a copy of the order and details of arrears.

    AM - in answer to your first question I took my paperwork to the Civil and Family court after speaking to the woman who 'deals with maintenance'. My consent order has county court at the top and being a law abiding citizen who's never had reason to visit a court until my divorce I thought they were the same thing

    I think our exes must be related. Mine lives in Texas and has just married his malaysian girlfriend. I came back to the UK 8 years ago after he'd proposed to another woman. He'd started applying for his green card so couldn't leave America and I think he thought I'd leave the kids with him - my visa would be revoked as soon as divorce proceedings were started.

    He finally got his greencard 5 years later and turned up with another woman in tow bearing laptops. He hasn't be back since.

    He hasn't spoken to daughter for ages. She got a 30 second phone call at 11pm on her birthday, you can imagine the comments being shouted in the background from the 7 girls who were here for a sleepover.

    He used to phone son on a Tuesday when he had a late start in 6th form and I've just found out from exMIL that he makes him speak to his girlfriend and her teenage daughters.

    I wish I could tell him to stuff his money but unfortunately I've used it for the kids to meet all their wants and needs, school trips, music and sport lessons, I haven't done what a friend does and save it for my retirement. I've got one about to start uni and another in her GCSE year and they're not cheap to run

    One last rant, when I returned we were living in a grotty furnished flat so I lied to the building society about my income to get a mortgage and bought a house. In the divorce it was classed as a matrimonial asset and I had to pay him off or they'd put a charge on the house.

    Taxi duty beckons, son enrols today - the joys of being a parent
    • PlayingHardball
    • By PlayingHardball 12th Sep 10, 6:41 PM
    • 751 Posts
    • 765 Thanks
    PlayingHardball
    I woudln't be disheartened with my story. I think the American and Canadian system are much better then the Europeon countries.

    Good luck, we'll definately keep this thread going for any updates, and to encourage each other!
  • Crawfordcrackers
    Remo
    Hi Guys, I've just stumbled on your thread and registered so I can reply. Its so good to hear that there are others out there going through the same thing. It makes my blood boil that they get away with it.
    My ex who I split up with in 1994 played the CSA system,so I never got a court order in place and then in 1997 he disappeared to Spain and stopped seeing his daughter and send Xmas and birthday cards each year and that has been it since. I was told by CSA that they was nothing they could do as he was no longer living the UK and I would have to employ a Spanish lawyer which would be very costly. From April 1997 until January 2007 I did not do anything as I believed that there was nothing I could do and brought my daughter with no financial support. By chance in January 2007 I read about REMO so I applied through my local court and also quite easily tracked down his address. In the 10 years since he had been out of my daughter’s life he had built up 3 successfully businesses and had made money along the way. I also found out through a contact in Spain that he is quite proud of the fact that he has got away without paying any money all these years.
    I then started the very long and slow process with REMO, I was warned it would take up to 2 years and 3½ years later we are still no nearer. I understand the language barriers involved in dealing with another countries legal system and appreciate that it can take time for documents to be translated but I still don't feel it should have taken this long. REMO refuse to speak to me and will only deal with the courts, the courts receive letters asking for information and they keep hold of them for months before acting on them. It’s very frustrating!! At one point Spain went to serve papers on him and he had moved address and they needed to ask Interpol to track him down. I found out his new address within 24 hours and submitted it to them, that was 18 months ago and still no papers served. REMO will not chase up Spain unless asked by the court in writing to do so and then it’s a case of sending Spain an interpreted letter. I'm sure in this day and age they could be a simpler system and maybe they send an email from a bi-lingual person.
    This man has got away with paying for his daughter for more than 13 years and I don't know if I will ever receive a penny or any back pay, yet he lives in a European country and visits this country at least 4 times a year to stay with his parents and nobody can do anything about it. I used to think it did not matter as it was his loss as he also chose to have no contact with her but as she is nearing 18 and the cost of her upkeep at College falls entirely on me. Not to mention she will hopefully be going to University next year to study Law and all the debt for fees, accommodation, books and living will fall to myself and her, I'm angry that he could affect both of our lives so much. I think the system is so wrong that because I am re-married I am not entitled to any benefits to top up my part-time earnings or help towards University fees because my husband’s income is too high - yet I would never ask him to pay for her, it’s not his responsibility, its another man's who has been allowed to play the system.
    I've just written to my MP so see if she can help. Lets hope judgement day comes for these horrible men .
  • mico62
    I'm not sure whether I've got good news or not. Phoned the Magistrates on Tuesday and was told the person I needed was in court and would phone me back. Phoned today and spoke to someone different who had me on hold for ages and said my claim was on the list and they would phone me back.

    Turns out my application had gone before a judge this afternoon, but my consent order hadn't been registered so they were writing to me for more info. Hang on my divorce cost me £12k, I paid the barsteward what I was required to and its not registered give me the number of the solicitors complaints bureau was my response.

    he said its a technicality cos my order was made in the county court and its registered there, but it is legal, I just have to submit some additional info and as soon as they get that it will go back to the judge before being passed to the Lord Chancellor's office who'll forward it to Texas.

    I'm relieved that my letters aren't sat on someone's desk but I'm interested to know what other info they could want, will keep you informed.

    Crawfordcracker - welcome and good luck

    I could've written your sentence 'I think the system is so wrong that because I am re-married I am not entitled to any benefits to top up my part-time earnings or help towards University fees because my husband’s income is too high - yet I would never ask him to pay for her, it’s not his responsibility' myself. coincidentally my son's just started his first year of Law.
    • AnxiousMum
    • By AnxiousMum 16th Sep 10, 6:49 PM
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    AnxiousMum
    At least you have the ball roling Mica! I'm just chuckling remembering my day in court here - none of the magistrates knew what to do - as they'd never had a Canadian court order placed in front of them before, or a variation to one requested. I had to basically instruct them what the procedure was - you hear my case, determine whether a provisional order should be granted or not, or amended in some way, and then it goes via Chancellors to the Canadian court system etc. etc. They took a break, obviously got advice, and were profusey apologising to me! They were very very nice, and I received my provisional order that was requested. Keep us posted how it progresses Mica - never know who may need to do it in the future!
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