Green, ethical, energy issues in the news

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  • NigeWick
    NigeWick Posts: 2,714 Forumite
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    lstar337 wrote: »
    Same with everything really.

    But at what cost? With current battery inefficiencies and lifespans? And what of the defunct batteries, where do all the non-recyclable parts go? What about super high current industries?
    I'm talking specifically about decommissioning nuclear power plants and the 20,000 years to keep the waste safe.

    Renewables are getting cheaper, not dearer (like coal, gas & nuclear). As technology improves what we've got and comes up with new products it will become even better value. Early adopters will pay for new technologies allowing for further research to improve things.

    25-30 years for offshore wind turbines which can mostly be recycled against what for nuclear which can't?

    Which non recyclable parts?

    Produce more current.
    The mind of the bigot is like the pupil of the eye; the more light you pour upon it, the more it will contract.
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  • Martyn1981
    Martyn1981 Posts: 14,747 Forumite
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    michaels wrote: »
    The concensus on speakev forum is that it is using the extremes of the battery storage, full and empty, that leads to degredation. So setting a maximum max charge 5 or 10kwh below the max and only discharging to say 50% required for day to day driving would have negligible impact on longevity.

    Thanks for that. I've been doing more reading and Youtub'ing and that certainly seems to be the consensus. I hadn't realised that leaving the batts fully charged (when not needed) was bad for long term life, live and learn.

    Just watched a TeslaTimeNews that in turn repeated a piece from Teslanomics (hope I've gotten the acknowledgments correct) - Tesla owners were asked to provide battery efficiency figures and number of cycles, the results surprised me.

    At around 700 cycles (roughly equal to 7 normal years mileage) the batts were slowly heading down towards 94% efficiency. That sounds pretty good to me.
    Mart. Cardiff. 5.58 kWp PV systems (3.58 ESE & 2.0 WNW)

    For general PV advice please see the PV FAQ thread on the Green & Ethical Board.
  • Martyn1981
    Martyn1981 Posts: 14,747 Forumite
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    Britain set for first coal-free day since the industrial revolution
    The UK is set to have its first ever working day without coal power generation since the industrial revolution on Friday, according to the National Grid.

    The control room tweeted the predicted milestone, adding that it is also set to be the first 24-hour coal-free period in Britain.

    The UK has had shorter coal-free periods in 2016, as gas and renewables such as wind and solar play an increasing role in providing the country with power. The longest continuous period until now was 19 hours – first achieved on a weekend last May, and matched on Thursday.
    Mart. Cardiff. 5.58 kWp PV systems (3.58 ESE & 2.0 WNW)

    For general PV advice please see the PV FAQ thread on the Green & Ethical Board.
  • zeupater
    zeupater Posts: 5,355 Forumite
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    Martyn1981 wrote: »
    ... At around 700 cycles (roughly equal to 7 normal years mileage) the batts were slowly heading down towards 94% efficiency. That sounds pretty good to me.
    Hi

    ... oddly enough I watched something on that yesterday (possibly the same video), followed by reading a number of items on Prof Goodenough's solid state glass cells eg ( https://news.utexas.edu/2017/02/28/goodenough-introduces-new-battery-technology .. note link to RSC published journal ) ... really interesting, & possibly a next generation game changer if/when commercialised and consumerised, which considering the emphasis on cheap, reliable, high density and long life storage at the moment would likely result in a massive investment potential leading to mass market lead-times far shorter than that of Lithium-ion.

    Interesting times indeed
    Z
    "We are what we repeatedly do, excellence then is not an act, but a habit. " ...... Aristotle
    B)
  • Martyn1981
    Martyn1981 Posts: 14,747 Forumite
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    michaels wrote: »
    The concensus on speakev forum is that it is using the extremes of the battery storage, full and empty, that leads to degredation. So setting a maximum max charge 5 or 10kwh below the max and only discharging to say 50% required for day to day driving would have negligible impact on longevity.

    Further (again) to what you said, I've been watching the news about Tesla's repricing this last week. They've dropped the 60 model from the Tesla S range, but reduced the price of the 75 by $7,000.

    But the interesting part was that they've greatly reduced the cost of the 'upgrade' to unlock the full 75kWh battery on 60kWh models, to just $2,000.

    I didn't even know they had larger locked batteries on some models. The 'upgrade' is just a download.

    Anyway, the point that was made, was that having a 75kWh battery locked at 60kWh (but costing less to buy than a 75 model), means that whilst you have less range, you don't degrade the battery as much (as you said), plus they charge to 60kWh (fake full) quickly, as batt charging slows down as you get nearer to full.

    All interesting lessons, for me.
    Mart. Cardiff. 5.58 kWp PV systems (3.58 ESE & 2.0 WNW)

    For general PV advice please see the PV FAQ thread on the Green & Ethical Board.
  • Martyn1981
    Martyn1981 Posts: 14,747 Forumite
    Name Dropper Photogenic First Anniversary First Post
    michaels wrote: »
    The concensus on speakev forum is that it is using the extremes of the battery storage, full and empty, that leads to degredation. So setting a maximum max charge 5 or 10kwh below the max and only discharging to say 50% required for day to day driving would have negligible impact on longevity.

    And more confirmation again (I'll shut up after this):

    The Workhorse W-15: The Electric Truck With A Lower Total Cost Of Ownership Than A Ford F-150
    The battery pack is 60 kWh nameplate with 45 kWh usable to ensure a long life for the pack.

    Impressive truck.
    Mart. Cardiff. 5.58 kWp PV systems (3.58 ESE & 2.0 WNW)

    For general PV advice please see the PV FAQ thread on the Green & Ethical Board.
  • Martyn1981
    Martyn1981 Posts: 14,747 Forumite
    Name Dropper Photogenic First Anniversary First Post
    Energy entrepreneurs turn to storage as renewables prospects slow
    Growth in clean energy has flatlined in the wake of subsidy cuts, prompting energy entrepreneurs to set their sights on storage as the next big opportunity
    Faced with a "challenging" renewables market, many entrepreneurs are looking to storage to deliver future growth, the report notes. There was only 20MW of battery capacity in operation at the end of 2016, but by the end of 2020 this is expected to grow 100 times over, with more than 2.3GW of new battery projects already in the planning system.

    Most of this new business is going to smaller players, the report points out. Independent storage developers secured contracts for 407MW in the recent Capacity Market auctions, compared to just 105MW from the 'Big Six' energy suppliers.

    Iain Robertson, vice president of renewables at SmartestEnergy, said more must now be done to ensure renewables and storage can maximise their potential in the energy system. "We call on the government to recognise the role renewables and storage can play in its forthcoming industrial strategy, and to allow them to compete with traditional generation on a level playing field," he said in a statement.
    Mart. Cardiff. 5.58 kWp PV systems (3.58 ESE & 2.0 WNW)

    For general PV advice please see the PV FAQ thread on the Green & Ethical Board.
  • silverwhistle
    silverwhistle Posts: 3,790 Forumite
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    https://www.theguardian.com/business/2017/may/04/nissan-launches-british-made-home-battery-to-rival-teslas-powerwall

    Did I get in before Martyn ?? :D
  • zeupater
    zeupater Posts: 5,355 Forumite
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    edited 4 May 2017 at 1:25PM
    silverwhistle wrote: »
    https://www.theguardian.com/business/2017/may/04/nissan-launches-british-made-home-battery-to-rival-teslas-powerwall

    Did I get in before Martyn ?? :D
    Hi

    The article is somewhere around 12 months behind the news curve, but in the way it's presented they've raised a number of questions, notably ...

    British made ? - "They are believed to be the first British-made household batteries" ... "While the batteries will be made in Sunderland, they will be assembled in Morocco." ... well, considering the battery offering consists of a number of cells configured in both parallel & serial packs with fuses & controlling electronics then I would consider that the batteries were made in Morocco, using some British sourced components (ie pre-owned & new cells), but then again, logic isn't really a journalism or marketing priority ...

    Price ? - "Buyers will be able to choose cheaper, used batteries that are no longer fit for electric car use, or pricier new ones." ... "The lithium-ion batteries will be priced from £5,000 and up" ... "The new batteries will come with a 10-year warranty; those reused from cars will have a five-year warranty." .... does this mean that £5000 represents the use of recycled (/pre-used) vehicle cells which carry a 5year warranty? - if so, the Tesla offering used as a direct comparison in the article certainly looks a lot more appealing.

    .. It's also interesting to note the potential for movement in price ... 12 months ago Nissan were reportedly saying that "the storage units, which are available to pre-order from September, are designed to be the most affordable in the market at £3,200 for the full installation of a 4.2KWh unit."( http://utilityweek.co.uk/news/nissan-enters-domestic-storage-market-with-xstorage/1241912#.WQr_CMbau00 ), so that's a significant price increase on units using second-hand reduced capacity cells with a reduced warranty, which if true effectively removes the product from any reasonable person's short list. For the units to be in any way attractive even at current market prices, they'd need to be around £2k fully installed, not £5k ....

    HTH
    Z
    "We are what we repeatedly do, excellence then is not an act, but a habit. " ...... Aristotle
    B)
  • silverwhistle
    silverwhistle Posts: 3,790 Forumite
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    Cheers Z. I didn't look at the detail but I'd only go into spreadsheet mode when my instincts tell me, and that is some way down the line. I'm not well-enough off to be an early adopter. More likely to get an electric vehicle than domestic batteries, but my car is only 7/8 years old, so some time to go for that too.:D
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