Parking fine from UKPC (private company - not local authority!)

Jez_Wolf · 26 August 2008 at 5:46PM

err "community life" - a wider population than people with Blue badges.

And as for "Parent and Child spaces" - what a joke they are.

Having Kids = lifestyle choice. - "special" parking spaces
Driving a 4x4 = lifestyle choice. "park amongst the others (but if you get dents, tough)"

So 4x4 drivers get discriminated against - as well as paying more road tax.

Rant over

sweven · 26 August 2008 at 10:27PM

This thread is becoming unnecessarily polarised.

mpython asks "Do you think it is socially acceptable for able bodied people to park in bays marked for the use of disabled badge holders?" and cites "common courtesy" as a reason to support their viewpoint.

I'd say that parking in a disabled badge in a busy street was not socially acceptable. Parking in one of 10 free disabled slots in an empty B&Q car park 5 minutes before closing time would be perfectly socially acceptable. Common sense as well as courtesy should apply here.

The OP did not break any laws. If we accept her statements then she, unlike many others in the same circumstances, DID have good reason to use the disabled bay. If she'd been using a space on public land then she would have broken a law, but not on private land.

I hope she's asked this question on Pepipoo where she'll get a much more supportive response.

Jez_Wolf · 28 August 2008 at 12:18AM

mpython wrote: »

Jez

If PPCs cannot levy penalties, why do the courts uphold any of their cases (as previously advised see posts passum for cases PPCs have won).

Such as:

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-542355/Judge-quashes-300-parking-fine--set-frighten-intimidate-driver.html

or

http://forums.pepipoo.com/index.php?showtopic=29529

I think you'll find that curtesy underlies an enormous amount of UK law - you might like to start with the magna carta

.

Please be more specific.

Jez_Wolf · 1 September 2008 at 11:50PM

mpython wrote: »

Jez

If pigs, chickens, .... can ...be made subject to ASBOs why can't able bodied people who deliberately deprive disabled badge holders of their entitlements?

Please quote the case that made Pigs and Chickens subject to ASBOs. Would love to read their defence testimony - oink oink and cluck cluck?

mpython · 2 September 2008 at 10:00AM

Jez,

I'm not sure I follow your logic. You agree that its wrong for able bodied people to park in disabled bays but that its not anti -social? Can you, hand on heart, say that the driver of the RM van in one of my previous posts was not being anti- social? As for the application of ASBOs, here are some other quotes from the Home Office (my emphasis)

http://www.respect.gov.uk/uploadedFiles/Members_site/Documents_and_images/Enforcement_tools_and_powers/ASBOGuidance_HOAUG2006_0043.pdf

Section 1(1) of the Act describes acting in an ‘anti-social manner’ as acting in ‘a manner which causes or is likely to cause harassment, alarm or distress to one or more persons not of the same household’ as the perpetrator. The wording is intentionally wide-ranging to allow for the orders to be used in a variety of circumstances. (i.e. its not just limited to the list of examples you quoted Jez)

However, Lord Steyn went on to explain: ‘The inquiry under section 1(1)(b), namely that such an order is necessary to protect persons from further anti-social acts by him, does not involve a standard of proof: it is an exercise of judgement or evaluation.’

It should be noted that it is the effect or likely effect of the behaviour on other people that determines whether the behaviour is antisocial. The agency applying for the order does not have to prove an intention on the part of the defendant to cause harassment, alarm or distress. Under section 1(5) of the 1998 Act, the Court will, however, disregard any behaviour shown to be reasonable in the circumstances.

So at the end of the day, it doesn't matter whether you or I, or the selfish driver thinks its anti -social, its a judge that will decide. My point, is that as the majority of people (based on contributions to this thread and my own personal circle of friends and colleagues) believe it is anti -social, then a judge is also likely to.

I've looked at the Daily Mail link you provided and I quote (again my emphasis);

"a judge has ruled that the demands for hundreds of pounds in penalties which a parking company sent to one woman driver were illegal because they were too high."

So not that no contract existed.

As for chickhen & pig ASBOs, heres 2 found via google:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/somerset/7350213.stm

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/england/norfolk/4789970.stm

Trust this helps.

peter_the_piper · 2 September 2008 at 1:25PM

Can you find anymore please as the links you give show the owners getting the ASBO's and not the pigs and chickens.:-)
All this is hypethetical as I can't see that anyone would ever get an asbo for this unless the guilty party continuously and deliberately prevented a disabled person from legitimately using an allocated space in a public car park, and then they would get a ticket anyway.

Jez_Wolf · 2 September 2008 at 5:01PM

MPython, ASBO's relate to behaviour which causes or is likely to cause harassment, alarm or distress.

Summarised by the Home Office as "Unacceptable activity that can blight the quality of community life".

However widely you interpret these, I really cannot see parking in a Disabled bay coming under any of them.

dee1982_2 · 3 September 2008 at 12:47AM

It would be good if people with temporary conditions could get badges from the doctor e.g, broken legs, slipped disc, SPD.
I had mild SPD but I once found I could not get out of the car because of the pain. A wider space would of meant I could of got up at a different angle that was just not possible in a normal space.
It really annoys me when people clearly don't have blue badges and park in disabled spaces. Have experianced a lot of it when out with my mum who has a blue badge. But if someone has a genuine physical problem then surely exceptions can be made. I know it takes a while to get accepted for a badge by then the problem is usually sorted.

baynln · 18 May 2009 at 8:54PM

inapicklepleasehelp wrote: »

I need help...

I'm in a bit of a grey area! I'm heavily pregnant and suffering from SPD (a condition that affects the hips) I am now unable to drive at all but two weeks ago I was photographed in a disabled bay in a private car park. I would never normally use these bays as I feel strongly that they are a requirement for the people that need them, however, the week before I had to wait 2 hours for the driver parked next to me to return to his vehicle as I couldn't open my door wide enough to access my vehicle. Before parking there I drove around the car park looking for an end space so that I wouldn't have to use the disabled bay but there were none vacant, as there were no mother and baby spaces either I felt I had no other choice.

I was under the impression that disabled parking bays in private car parks were advisory only but I have received a parking charge from UKPC of £45 going up to £90 if not paid within 14 days.

Should I dispute this? I can of course provide a medical certificate to my condition and my numerous referrals to physiotherapy and proof of my chiropracty treatment.

I would definately dispute it.

I too have a problem with UKPC when I mistakenly parked in a disable bay which wasn't clearly marked, I have sent countless letters, even one addressed to the Complaints Dept/Manager & they do not even bother to reply. I believe they are a member of the British Parking Association and are approved by the DVLA, so I am going to try that route next. The parking space in question for me was at Tescos & I was only there 10 minuntes! I am therefore considering writing to Tesco because they are a client of UKPC and therefore UKPC may listen to them????

baynln · 18 May 2009 at 8:58PM

Further to the comments above, I agree that if a healthy, able bodied person DELIBERATELY parks in a disabled bay, it's wrong, but should not be penalised for a simple mistake. I also think that this lady had very little choice so she neither deserves to be penalised.

Parking fine from UKPC (private company - not local authority!)

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