MyParkingCharge at a train station

pappa_golf · 9 February 2018 at 9:56PM

TZR123 wrote: »

Hi, Would I be correct in thinking that as VCS don't comply with POFA then they are unable to pursue me as keeper for this PCN? I will definitely be including this in my appeal to them.
Thanks

the protection of freedom act does not apply on railway land (bylaws) and had they tried to comply , they would be in deep doggy doo

TZR123 · 10 February 2018 at 4:24PM

Hi again, would someone be able to read through my appeal and see how it sounds?

Dear Sir/Madam,

Re PCN number:

I am the keeper of the vehicle which received this purported 'parking charge'. There will be no admissions as to who was driving and no assumptions can be drawn. I am not liable and I believe that your signs fail the test of 'large lettering' and prominence, as established in ParkingEye Ltd v Beavis. Your unremarkable and obscure signs are in small print and the onerous terms are not readable.

Should you fail to cancel this PCN immediately, I require the following information with your template rejection:

1. Does your charge represent damages for breach of contract? Answer yes or no.
2. Please provide dated photos of the signs that you say were on site, which you contend formed a contract.
3. Please provide all photographs taken of this vehicle.

I am alarmed by your contact and I do not give you consent to process any data relating to me, or this vehicle. I deny liability and will not respond to debt collectors. You must consider this letter a Section 10 Notice under the DPA, and should you fail to respond accordingly, your company will be reported to the Information Commissioner.

Furthermore, as you (VCS) don!!!8217;t comply with the protection of freedoms act (POFA) you have no right to pursue the keeper for this matter and must pursue the driver. Also, the protection of freedoms act does not apply on railway land (bylaws), so once again you are unable to pursue me as keeper for this matter.
As your Notice to Keeper arrived more than 14 days after the event took place this means that there is no keeper liability possible.

The signage in this particular car park is woefully inadequate, the entrance signs are placed high up and are impossible to read whilst driving, the signs around the site itself are not visible from the drivers point of view as they are situated high up on lampposts and no reasonable person can expect drivers to see these signs as they are driving through the car park, you would need a see through roof to be able to see them they are that high up let alone be able to read them whilst driving.

I have kept proof of submission of this appeal and will also be making a formal complaint to your client landowner.

If you are a current BPA member, send me a POPLA code. If you are an IPC firm, cease and desist with all contact.

Yours faithfully,

I will need to submit this appeal on my parking charge website, should I include images of the signs on there aswell to support my point. (I assume this would need to be done by uploading to an image hosting site and then putting the links into the appeal?)

Also, how would I prove that the NTK arrived more than 14 days after the event, surely they will just say it arrived the day after it was posted. It did not, it arrived 16 days after the incident.

Thanks for reading, any advice is greatly appreciated.

Umkomaas · 10 February 2018 at 4:36PM

TZR123 wrote: »

Hi, Would I be correct in thinking that as VCS don't comply with POFA then they are unable to pursue me as keeper for this PCN? I will definitely be including this in my appeal to them.
Thanks

It won't stop them. The only way to stop them is to get a judge to tell them to stop.

Unfortunately it will need VCS to chance their arm at court for you to put your arguments to the Judge. VCS are calling the shots on this.

Your appeal (even with your embellishments - which we advise against) will be turned down. Sorry, but you're going to have to batten down the hatches and ride this out - wherever it may lead.

waamo · 10 February 2018 at 4:38PM

Postal delivery times are set out in law. First class post is deemed delivered 2 working days after being posted unless it can be demonstrated otherwise.

TZR123 · 10 February 2018 at 4:47PM

waamo wrote: »

Postal delivery times are set out in law. First class post is deemed delivered 2 working days after being posted unless it can be demonstrated otherwise.

2 working days after the issue date (date it was posted) would make it the 14th day after the incident, would this mean that it hasn't arrived in time?

pappa_golf · 10 February 2018 at 4:50PM

TZR123 wrote: »

2 working days after the issue date (date it was posted) would make it the 14th day after the incident, would this mean that it hasn't arrived in time?

whats it matter POFa cannot be used on this land

Umkomaas · 10 February 2018 at 4:51PM

TZR123 wrote: »

2 working days after the issue date (date it was posted) would make it the 14th day after the incident, would this mean that it hasn't arrived in time?

Calculate as follows. The date of parking event is day 0, the day following is day 1 - count from day 1. If date of receipt is day 14 (or lower) it meets the PoFA timescale.

waamo · 10 February 2018 at 5:10PM

TZR123 wrote: »

2 working days after the issue date (date it was posted) would make it the 14th day after the incident, would this mean that it hasn't arrived in time?

Pappa golf has hit the nail on the head though. POFA doesn't apply on railway land.

Coupon-mad · 11 February 2018 at 1:40AM

No idea why anyone calculates the date to send a non-POFA NTK, as if the date is the be-all and end-all (it isn't). All VCS NTKs are non-POFA, so who cares when it arrives if it's not POFA worded and the keeper can't be held liable anyway?

financerulez · 12 February 2018 at 1:40PM

Sounds like you're in a similar situation to me, although the driver in my case was ANPR'd and in your case was given a windscreen notice. Follow the advice of the above - these guys know their stuff.

You're foccussing on POFA quite a lot, when it does not apply to byelaw governed land. First port of call is to establish whether byelaws govern - and in most railway cases, they do. If you confirm they do, don't worry about POFA, your goal is simply to waste 6 months in ping pong letters so the deadline for a prosecution expires (6 months).

If all that they have is the Keeper, they don't have much chance of doing anything. Keeper has no liability on byelaw governed land. And so long as the Keeper doesn't reveal the identity of the driver/owner, then they'll have trouble finding out. Also note as PG says, they can't pass on even their Keeper data to the Train Company, who would be the ones to bring the prosecution. (In theory anyone can, but can you see them forking out the £5k of private prosecution costs as a favour to the train company? Especially when they don't know who the driver or owner is!)

I would avoid contacting the train company and revealing any details of this if I were you, as it's the train company who are more likely to bring a prosecution.

Also note there are no prison sentences for this type of criminal law. Unless you accidentally sent them a letter saying you were the driver, AND they decided to pay for the prosecution, THEN the fine would likely be 50% of your weekly earnings, or maybe even less if you plead. I think I read about one case 4 years ago where it got to Mag and they ended up pleading and had to pay about £250. (In that case they had admitted to being driver I think, and also the initial notice and management was handled directly by the Train company - not this private parking scam who can't pass data.)

MyParkingCharge at a train station

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