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Fixtures and fittings form - vendor breach of contract, next steps?

13

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  • Sootoo
    Sootoo Posts: 26
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    I think what Bossworld was asking was "does the Fixtures and Fittings form mean nothing" and it seems that it does mean nothing if the house was left like it was and he has no comeback. So what's the point of filling in a Fixtures and Fittings form if it doesn't form part of the legal contract?
  • Doozergirl
    Doozergirl Posts: 33,775
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    Sootoo wrote: »
    I think what Bossworld was asking was "does the Fixtures and Fittings form mean nothing" and it seems that it does mean nothing if the house was left like it was and he has no comeback. So what's the point of filling in a Fixtures and Fittings form if it doesn't form part of the legal contract?

    It's not about it meaning nothing, it's about the value of the breach versus the cost of proving and enforcing the breach.
    Everything that is supposed to be in heaven is already here on earth.
  • marksoton
    marksoton Posts: 17,516 Forumite
    Sootoo wrote: »
    I think what Bossworld was asking was "does the Fixtures and Fittings form mean nothing" and it seems that it does mean nothing if the house was left like it was and he has no comeback. So what's the point of filling in a Fixtures and Fittings form if it doesn't form part of the legal contract?

    It does mean something.

    But in the real world you have to choose your battles. I don't know about you but a few knackered white goods and a bit of elbow grease really isn't worth fighting over.

    Especially if i had a 2 year old again!
  • Sootoo
    Sootoo Posts: 26
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    I understand that and that it's probably not worth pursuing - the conclusion being that the F & F form is not worth the paper it's written on so why bother with one?
  • Bossworld
    Bossworld Posts: 423
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    You mention 'soon to be inheritance' so the owner is either dying or has died? Presuming, and sorry if I am wrong, this was all going on while you were buying instructing a removal company to leave X y z would have been at the bottom of their list of issues. The cat well it's not ideal but you have dealt with that too.

    Do you really want the second hand white goods? Who knows how clean they were or problems they bring with them. Whenever we have moved and been offered someone's old white goods I've always turned them down. I don't want their problems and dirt. They are all so cheap now to buy new for a temporary fix if you are changing the kitchen and can be sold back on as nearly new if they are there short term.

    The skip of stuff is annoying but not at all unusual, again I've always found stuff left around the house generally where people forget to last look lofts and garages. Sometimes it's junk other times it's not. The house we live in now was previously owned by a girls school, we found amazing 50s school desks and Ercol chairs in one of the outbuildings. We let them know and they said we were welcome to keep them. We didn't have need for 60 desks and chairs so sold them all and shared the money with the school.

    Try to move on would be my advice and start enjoying your new house.

    We rarely got a straight story from the vendor's solicitors, indeed if you look at the 'waiting to exchange' thread you'll see it change from he was moving into a home, to he was moving in with family, to finally he was planning to buy a flat 200 miles away (this was about 4 months into the transaction).

    My understanding via the EA was that the son was arranging the removal but was difficult to contact (funny how when we were making offers they were replying very quickly...). I suspect we will never from them again.

    I mention 'soon to be inheritance' flippantly because the vendor himself was elderly, though to my knowledge, not on his way out. I thought he was quite a lot older, but when I went to update the electoral register info, it stated he wasn't over 75. If my own father (72) was in a similar situation, there's not a chance I'd have acted in this way.

    With regards to the above, I take on board your points about time and removals, but when you have nearly 5 months to arrange and resolve this sort of thing between accepting the offer and moving out, even if you're incapable of doing it yourself, do you not think paying £230 to a cleaner prior to moving (0.1% of the purchase price) would have been a reasonable thing to do?

    Re: white goods - my own ones at the old house were purchased in 2012 and 2014 - if I'd have known there wouldn't be any here when we moved, I'd have simply taken my own with me and saved £700 of expense.

    With regards to the cat, we have two of our own and so we couldn't take it on. If he had intended for it to be 'left with the house' then he needed to provide for its future care financially and provide a straight story. We were told it was a stray that just came here for food as well - meaning it didn't get fed for about 4 days at first - we felt absolutely rotten when we found out, and fed him up until a few days after when the Dog and Cat Shelter could take him in. Again, he or the son should have seen that the cat was taken care of.

    I understand the 'let it go' comments and I'm at the conclusion that there's F all I can do about it, but as Sootoo has put, what on earth is the point of the F&F forms at the end of it all? Seems as though we could have saved ourselves a tonne of time and effort and not bothered cleaning or tidying our old house before leaving, or leaving them a card and bottle. One just hopes that what goes around, comes around, and something bites our vendor's family on the !!!! at some point in the future.

    It's not so much the money, it's the sheer principle and inconvenience caused. Have to say I'm not particularly vengeful but if I was, I would have been keen to gift the vendor's family a delivery of a tonne bag of sand on their doorstep to deal with.
  • marksoton
    marksoton Posts: 17,516 Forumite
    Sootoo wrote: »
    I understand that and that it's probably not worth pursuing - the conclusion being that the F & F form is not worth the paper it's written on so why bother with one?

    Of course it is. But how would you propose to enforce it?

    A compulsory retention on all property purchases maybe? But then that begs the question of who decides whether that retention is released?
  • Davesnave
    Davesnave Posts: 34,741
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    Doozergirl wrote: »

    Letting go can be hard, even though it's simple. Learning to do it is a life changer.
    You're right, but in my limited experience, it's taken half a lifetime to learn!
  • davidmcn
    davidmcn Posts: 23,596
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    Bossworld wrote: »
    With regards to the cat, we have two of our own and so we couldn't take it on.

    Annoying/upsetting though the cat may have been, I don't think it is relevant to the fixtures and fittings or your contract in general.
    I understand the 'let it go' comments and I'm at the conclusion that there's F all I can do about it, but as Sootoo has put, what on earth is the point of the F&F forms at the end of it all?

    It gives you the right to pursue the case, if you think it's worth your time and money doing so. Same as any other legal rights.
    Seems as though we could have saved ourselves a tonne of time and effort and not bothered cleaning or tidying our old house before leaving, or leaving them a card and bottle.

    You're not legally, or even morally, obliged to provide a card and bottle!
  • moneyistooshorttomention
    moneyistooshorttomention Posts: 17,940 Forumite
    edited 8 October 2016 at 11:00AM
    I can see why you couldnt take the cat on in the circumstances - with 2 of your own already. I know I can instantly think of a cat that simply won't tolerate any others around the place - so if one has one like that...then whatcanyado?:(

    I can see why others are advocating leaving it and it's entirely your choice, but I must admit I'd be all the more inclined to try and get my money back after all the messing-around you say he's done already.

    Found the link for the CAB leaflet on small claims:

    https://www.citizensadvice.org.uk/law-and-rights/legal-system/taking-legal-action/small-claims/
  • Long story short, went back to the solicitors via email. A while later we had an email saying they'd had a response from the vendor's solicitors, advising they hadn't seen the last response from mid-September, but would go back to the vendor for an answer.

    Heard nothing up until the end of last week, was unable to obtain a forwarding address either. In the end, decided we had nothing else to lose (having weighed up the cost of small claims for £500 it would have still been worth it).

    Had a bit of a brainwave - we hadn't seen any post at all for the previous owner. So, I wrote a brief, factual latter to the vendor, and sent it to my own address last Friday.

    Today, we received a reply back, offering their apologies for the inconvenience and a cheque for the £500. Apparently they'd communicated back to their solicitor about my previous request - not entirely sure what to believe and possibly their solicitor is staggeringly incompetent, but at least it's all resolved.
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